Georgian RJ's

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Stinky
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Georgian RJ's

Post by Stinky »

It looks like CR is gearing up to force us into a strike situation in 2015 so he can cancel the CPA. If Sky Regional is fat on pilots and has leads on some 175's for lease in 2015 and Georgian has a few RJ's and DH8's with the ability to quickly add more we'll be allowed to strike!
So, do we take the 20%-30% cut with benefit reductions and more cuts or do we strike, let the CPA get thrown out the window and then beg to have a few scraps back if we agree to even more cuts?
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CanadianEh
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by CanadianEh »

Rock and a hard place. As long as pilots continue to undercut one another, the race to the bottom continues at an ever increasing rate!
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teacher
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by teacher »

................and to think, us folks at Jazz just a few short years ago were being labeled as scabs and bottom feeders. Now we're the over priced help.................
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Mig29
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Mig29 »

I disagree.

Take pay cut somewhere else....office, ground staff, management....because last time I checked, Jazz was 4th airline in N.America for on-time performance. Frankly a lot of people are involved in this achievement, but when it's all said and done, when doors are closed and park brake is off, the people who make this on-time performance a reality are the pilots!

If Jazz pilots are going to go into next round of negotiations with the attitude that concessions are a necessity, then be prepared to give a lot more then 20-30%. When we ALL start respecting our selves a bit more, then so will the other guy at the negotiating table.

I believe there is room for improvement, more efficiency, but it doesn't have to come from the pay cheques or degrading the lifestyle and the current contract. I believe that the company and union can have a positive and fruitful negotiation if and only IF they work together, and not treat each other like enemies. (That will depend of course on who is sitting at the table....)
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Sleeve of Wizard
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Sleeve of Wizard »

Mig29 wrote:I disagree.

Take pay cut somewhere else....office, ground staff, management....because last time I checked, Jazz was 4th airline in N.America for on-time performance. Frankly a lot of people are involved in this achievement, but when it's all said and done, when doors are closed and park brake is off, the people who make this on-time performance a reality are the pilots!

If Jazz pilots are going to go into next round of negotiations with the attitude that concessions are a necessity, then be prepared to give a lot more then 20-30%. When we ALL start respecting our selves a bit more, then so will the other guy at the negotiating table.

I believe there is room for improvement, more efficiency, but it doesn't have to come from the pay cheques or degrading the lifestyle and the current contract. I believe that the company and union can have a positive and fruitful negotiation if and only IF they work together, and not treat each other like enemies. (That will depend of course on who is sitting at the table....)
This is a little off topic but... It's funny that pilots are responsible for on-time performance when we're ON TIME by simply releasing the parking brake "on time," yet when the parking brake is released LATE it's always someone else's fault (agent, bag loading, maintenance...) We're all responsible for on time performance.
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Stinky
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Stinky »

I'll agree that spreading the pessimistic attitude plays right into their hands, they obviously are hoping we come in ready for concessions but I don't want to be naive either. They really seem to have us by the balls on this and I don't see what we can do as a group to fix it.
I thought it was strange when the 175's went to SR but it seems like the plan right from the beginning was to do some serious union busting at Jazz. I imagine Air Canada had a lot to do with this Georgian/Regional 1 deal.
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tiguan
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by tiguan »

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1229705 ... der-routes

Some more bad news here. It is not looking good for the regionals in Canada.
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Stinky
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Stinky »

Jazz was 4th airline in N.America for on-time performance. Frankly a lot of people are involved in this achievement, but when it's all said and done, when doors are closed and park brake is off, the people who make this on-time performance a reality are the pilots!
Unfortunately, I've never known anyone to buy a ticket based on the airlines on time performance. People want dirt cheap airfare, they might pay extra for hot flight attendants but that's about it.
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Mig29
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Mig29 »

I think the only way out is as someone has mentioned getting ACPA/ALPA on the same page, realizing that we are all collectively losing ground and it will come back in 4-5 years back on their table, just like Jazz is under the gun today.

I was only quoting the on time performance, trying to say that Jazz is making profit year over year and doing it on time and safely. Why break the formula, by cornering the employees with concession creating a problem where there isn't one?

Hot F/A's?? Like the blondie in the middle??? :smt047

Image
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winston
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by winston »

How about Chorus takes a pro-active approach for once and bids on the Trans border flying....

I'm sure there is a clause somewhere in The CPA that won't allow it but I'm getting pretty tired of this sit back and react or do nothing at all approach that seems to be our "Management" style.

W

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1229705 ... der-routes
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Stinky
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Stinky »

How about Chorus takes a pro-active approach for once and bids on the Trans border flying....
There's no doubt they'll bid on it, there is also no doubt we can't be as low price wise. It would also defeat Air Canada's attempt to diversify the flying. It will be no different then when we bid on the Q400 flying out of the island.
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Inverted2
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Inverted2 »

GGN can barely maintain its staffing levels right now. Next time you look at the boards in the terminal notice how many GGN (and SkyRegional) flights are delayed or cancelled.
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cpt.sam
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by cpt.sam »

mmmmmmmmm? :rolleyes:
Did I understand that AC is requesting proposals from Canadian AND American operators?
:smt014
I assume this must be reciprocal agreement, allowing city pairs to be served by each nations operators?

Also;
Does anyone think this in line with the Regional1 mou with Georgian?
Could Georgian be in line to get larger a/c?
Will EVAS follow in NL?
How long is the Contract valid?

So many questions... :?
So many disgusting facets to our industry... :evil:
So many worries about career path choices! :roll:
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Fanblade
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Fanblade »

The invitation of US regionals is probably an effort to send out to Canadian bidders what is expected of them. Based on the diversification message I would guess this flying will go to GNN/R1.

So SR under cuts AC. Encore undercuts SR. Now AC wants to target the floor.

Well done folks!
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TrailerParkBoy
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by TrailerParkBoy »

So Air Canada wants to diversify the regional flying? I remember not so long ago, there were many regionals in canada like Air BC, Air Nova, Air Alliance, Air Ontario and Canadian Regional. They merged into one, and now Air Canada want that all back!
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Rumors
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Rumors »

How much flying can Air Canada take away from Jazz?

Don't they have an agreement till 2020?
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teacher
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by teacher »

There is a minimum fleet guarantee and block hour guarantee as well. Just don't expect Jazz to get additional work if AC is gunning for cheap lift. If price is the only consideration than our 4th place and Sky Regionals 29th place standing in the OTP rankings means little. Don't we all use the same baggage handlers and others services?
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Rumors
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Rumors »

Isn't jazz close to those minimums?

if AC subbed out any of Jazz 's current work wouldnt they have to give them more flying to make up for the flying They lose?
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peice
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by peice »

It's a strange merger between R1 and GGN. GGN pilots will stay in their union and continue to fly the 1900 and the R1 pilots will stay out west and fly what they fly. GGN makes the majority of its money through maintenance and the charters out west, giving it a good position there with plenty of parts due to this merger. It looks like they are trying to diversify and continue on to expand west, instead of trying to satisfy AC with these new 705 aircraft.
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tdp19
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by tdp19 »

Peice, they could be trying anything but i heard that there management approached there pilot group in offered them $48,000, and $23,000 respectively to fly left seat rj and dash and right seat rj and dash. Apparently the pilot group declined, any ggn guys confirm this?
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Maxpwr
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Maxpwr »

Rumors wrote:Isn't jazz close to those minimums?

if AC subbed out any of Jazz 's current work wouldnt they have to give them more flying to make up for the flying They lose?
Jazz is not even close to the minimums. They are currently doing about 385k-390k block hours yearly. AC can drop them down to minimum guarrantee which is in the low 300K without penalty. I think they can do this with a 6 month window. For example the summer 2014 block hours have not yet been given to Jazz, my thoughts are that this flying gets settled in the next couple months before Jazz is due to receive the summer flying hours from AC. AC might be weighing the cost advantage of giving this flying to some other company and paying for parked planes at Jazz. We are all speculating that this is actually Jazz routes on the chopping block but who knows it could very well be GGN routes. We shall see. Its a sad situation but pretty much what many had predicted happening. I hope this doesnt mean any reductions at Jazz.
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prop2jet
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by prop2jet »

From Flightglobal:


Air Canada to replace Jazz flying on certain transborder routes

By: Kristin Majcher Washington DC

10:30 23 Sep 2013

Air Canada is seeking a new regional carrier to replace Halifax-based Jazz Aviation as the operator of certain transborder routes between Canada and the USA as part of its announcement today to initiate a request for proposals (RFP) for the flying.

Air Canada says it will look for either a new carrier or existing regional partner to replace Jazz on these routes, and will not accept a bid by Jazz in the process.


“The objective of the RFP is cost reduction and diversification,” Air Canada tells Flightglobal. “A Jazz bid would therefore not be accepted.”

The airline tells Flightglobal that it will “abide by all terms” of its existing capacity purchase agreement (CPA) with Jazz in this process, which has terms effective through 2020. The contract includes a guarantee for Jazz to operate a minimum fleet of 122 aircraft for Air Canada under this agreement.

The agreement does not affect Air Canada’s mainline pilot contract, as the routes are all operated by Jazz, says the carrier.

In an earlier response to news of the RFP, Jazz Aviation told Flightglobal: “We would welcome the opportunity to bid on this work and remain open and willing to discuss all opportunities with Air Canada.”

Jazz Aviation performs a majority of the regional flying under the Air Canada Express banner. It operates Bombardier Dash 8 Q400s, Bombardier CRJ200 and CRJ700s and smaller Dash 8-100 and -300 turboprops.

Jazz Aviation’s parent company Chorus Aviation is undergoing several initiatives to reduce costs in light of the competitive regional environment, including consolidating its heavy maintenance lines and opening a new operations centre.

Air Canada has partnerships with three other Canadian regional airlines in addition to Jazz, which operates a majority of the short-haul routes under the Air Canada Express banner. Sky Regional operates five 70-seat Q400 aircraft out of the Billy Bishop Toronto City airport and in February begun service with 15 Embraer 175 regional jets on mostly transborder routes to the northeastern USA. Exploits Valley Air Services (EVAS) Air Charters and Air Georgian also perform service for the carrier with smaller 18-seat Beechcraft 1900D aircraft.

Air Canada tells Flightglobal it will not consider transferring its Embraer 190 regional jets out of its mainline fleet as it did with its 15 Embraer 175s earlier this year, as it is not permitted in its pilot agreement. Air Canada transitioned those 15 jets to Sky Regional between February and September of this year to take advantage of the airline partner’s lower cost structure.


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... es-390866/

From this it is clear that AC is clearly focused on excluding Jazz from any future work and will assign flying to another carrier that is willing to do the work for less. I think it is fair to say that the executive management at Jazz/Chorus is clearly out of touch with reality.
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teacher
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by teacher »

And yet Jazz is blocked (or allowed with severe penalties) to bid on any kind of flying that competes with AC. Can't fly against, can't bid for. Seems fair.
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Mig29
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by Mig29 »

That definitively sounds like "Fair competition" to me :roll:
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merlin
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Re: Georgian RJ's

Post by merlin »

Jazz is in an awful position no doubt. I'm thinking that more Jazz f/o's will be saying yes to Encore instead of no.

Reality is that there is still to many pilots in Canada and the USA. Simple supple and demand. You can blame Sky, Encore, AC or whoever but until they cant find pilots things wont change. Supple and demand always wins.
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