4000 PIC/Turbine/Floats, looking for ideal 1900/350/200 job

[180]

Hi guys and gals,

I've got just over 4000 PIC on floats, 2000 turbine, and I'm looking to make the move into the multi-IFR world late in life; I'm 42 years old, with a wife and a young baby.

I'm interested in companies that operate 1900's or Super King Air's, (shooting for +12,500, preferably EFIS) that are able to move a guy from the right seat into the left seat without having to get 500 multi-PIC in a smaller piston first. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if I had the choice…)

I don't know why I've always been drawn to the Beechcraft family, but for whatever reason, they seem more appealing to me than the Metros. (No offence to the lawn-dart, death-tubers out there.)

I know how to work the search function and have researched all of the operators in Canada who operate these machines and their basic pay scales.

What I'm looking for is the inside scoop on which operators would be suitable matches for someone in my position, who are:

- located in reasonably affordable parts of the country, (so probably not Yellowknife, Fort Mac, or Vancouver)
- not restricted by Contrails, (there goes most good Calgary based companies)
- paying fair enough wages that I can still feed my family?

A few of my options:

Northern Thunderbird looks good out of Prince George or Smithers.
PAL would be cool. We like the East Coast.
Bar XH might work.

Unfortunately, some great companies that wouldn't work for me:

North Cariboo and Sunwest have amazing fleets, but with contrail restrictions and me with no multi-PIC…would be a long road.
Pacific Coastal is great, but is very seasonal, plus Vancouver pricing.

I'd really appreciate hearing from those of you in the know. Feel free to PM if you want to keep your tips on the down-low. And thanks in advance!

[flying4dollars]

First of all, where does your wife want to be. No sense in moving your family to a city that they won't be happy in. While the pay is important yes, so will the lifestyle, especially with a young baby.

[kilpicki]

courtesy air ! Lloydminster AB

[180]

First of all, where does your wife want to be. No sense in moving your family to a city that they won't be happy in. While the pay is important yes, so will the lifestyle, especially with a young baby.

The wife would be happiest the closer to a major centre the better: Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Toronto, Halifax, etc.

Her sanity is a big part of this equation! Happy wife, happy life, right!

courtesy air ! Lloydminster AB

Hadn't thought of Courtesy. Could be an option. Lloydminster would be doable. Only issue is only 2 of 15 machines are over 12,500.

Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em coming!

[loopa]

CMA has been the access route for a lot of guys like you coming from the floats or up north. They have scheduled air services on the 1900 which means not contrails. With your time you'd probably start in the mid 50's, adding on about 7 or 8k in per diems which will most likely be used up due to the overnights and the eating out. Coming in on the 1900 will open up opportunities to go captain on one of the 705 airplanes when they need captains - which as of late seems to be happening every 6 months due to attrition. There is a gamble of which base you will be assigned. But you don't find this out until the tail end of training / ppc. The pilot's are fun to fly with, and the group is usually tight. You'll have the oddball letting the better get to them, but for the most part the pilots are a blast to work with. Turn a blind eye towards company policies and expectations of fair treatment because if you get involved in that battle, you'll become bitter - and it's usually for this reason people end up leaving after putting in their time. Keep in mind that times are changing in this industry, but alike other companies on the field all of our guys end up either at WestJet, Air Canada, Enerjet, Canadian North, a corporate gig, overseas, etc after spending up to 3-4 years here.

One rhetorical point I will leave with you to think about is to keep an eye out for what Encore is doing and their potential impact on carriers like CMA. Good luck with your choice!

Oh and if you go to the salary forum, there is a pretty recent write up of CMA salaries which are accurate in case you are forecasting for a captain job on the Dash 8 or dornier in the future.

[180]

Thanks Loopa. For a guy looking for +12,500 and EFIS, CMA is hard to ignore with a dozen 1900D's.

I wasn't so keen on what I "thought" the salaries were, but looks like Canada Pilot Pay etc haven't been updated in a couple of years.

Thanks for the insight and reminder that you can't always believe everything you read on the internet!

[Jack In The Box]

I second what Loopa posted. While you can find much buzz about CMA on these boards, ultimately you can't take much you don't personally experience yourself for anything more than a grain of salt. If a career builder is what you're looking for CMA is a good option. Recently the pay has increased and from what I hear the operation is well run. People seem to be happier there lately.

[loopa]

Shoot me a PM and I'll give you a tour 180 and can answer some more detailed questions

[JohnnyHotRocks]

What about Foxflight....They have hired float drivers into the right seat of the Lear35

[180]

Thanks for all the help and insight guys.

I've received close to a dozen PM's and learned a lot.

It's a tough decision, leaving a cozy, well paid float gig for the unknown, especially when it involves selling a home and uprooting a family, but with another 25 years of flying (hopefully) in my future, I think the long term gain will trump the short term pain.

I also appreciate how steep and shocking the learning curve is going to be for a guy like me, going from the familiar single pilot VFR float world to the unfamiliar, multi-crew, multi-engine IFR world. A few of you mentioned in PM's how guys with similar experience to mine have struggled and had tough transitions into their respective companies. Hopefully with a lot of hard work and the right attitude, it won't be too painful for whoever I'm sitting beside in the near future.

If any floater pilots who've made the transition want to chime in on their experience, (or any IFR training captains who had to endure one of us in the right seat) I'd be very interested to hear how it all went.

Thanks again for everyone's time!

180
(My weight a decade ago. I've never actually flown one. Just the 185, -2, -3T & 208. I wonder if the tag 200 is taken? )

[Corey James]

Hey there,
Just had a question about Northern Thunderbird Air, can anyone help me out?
I am low time pilot, but with lots of northern experience and dispatch experience. Would a company like this do ramp/dispatch and into a flight line position? Or perhaps dispatch and fly part time until you have the required hours and go full time on the flight line.
Any info would be a great help.

Thanks

[loopa]

What's your time?

[C172Heavy]

Hey there,
Just had a question about Northern Thunderbird Air, can anyone help me out?
I am low time pilot, but with lots of northern experience and dispatch experience. Would a company like this do ramp/dispatch and into a flight line position? Or perhaps dispatch and fly part time until you have the required hours and go full time on the flight line.
Any info would be a great help.

Thanks

They have done ramp / dispatch in the past. Now that I think about it, the chief pilot would like a dispatcher with flight experience, but I couldn't tell you how long the wait to fly would be. That, and he wouldn't have much say in dispatcher hiring. What is your time like? They have hired 800 hr guys in the past. You would not want to go to Thunderbird without being upgradable though. (ATPL or close...)

Good luck, and pm if you had more questions..

[cdnpilot77]

If any floater pilots who've made the transition want to chime in on their experience, (or any IFR training captains who had to endure one of us in the right seat) I'd be very interested to hear how it all went.

I went from a 172/180/185 on floats to an amphib beaver to a KingAir 200 and now a 704 Bizjet.

It's been a fantastic ride and even with the ups and downs and hardships, I couldn't be happier with my career. I worked for what I strongly believe is the best KingAir operator in Canada, had top notch training and was trusted that I knew how to fly an airplane, but flew with guys that had been flying these airplanes for 10-20+years. It was simply the more complex systems and local knowledge that needed the attention when I started there. This brings to my next point, you said:

I also appreciate how steep and shocking the learning curve is going to be for a guy like me, going from the familiar single pilot VFR float world to the unfamiliar, multi-crew, multi-engine IFR world

I don't think it will be nearly as bad as you think. You have much more experience than I, and knowing the turbines and how to use those 2 funny things on the ground by your feet will make the transition much smoother than you give credit for. The hardest part will be the studying with a youngin around. That was damn near impossible for me when I was doing my re-current training on the king Air with 8 month old twins in the house.

I have also found my way into, what I also believe, is the best BizJet operator in Canada. The respect shown to me by management and the captains and knowledge the captains all share with me is nothing short of spectacular. It is an easy environment to grow and thrive in.

The moral of the story, pick and choose your company carefully, they will help you succeed and sustain the healthy balance between your home life and work life or will make every minute of your life miserable. Best of luck!!

[West Coast Swell]

FYI - I'm still adding beer names to my list for hooking you up with your new employer. Nice work. Im proud of you! Just saying.

[Mr. North]

As I transitioned from floats to the Multi-IFR world, I had to really focus on CRM and radio procedures. Since I was comfortable doing everything by myself, learning how to communicate properly with my co-pilot/captain took some getting used too. I also had trouble with my radio work in high traffic areas where short, effective communication is required as opposed to the more casual broadcasts I made on 122.8.

With a good attitude and an open mind you should have no problem. In my experience the guys who struggled with the switch were really trying to bring the bush flying with them into the IFR world. They didn't want to leave it behind and fully apply themselves to a type of flying that maybe wasn't as interesting. So bring your stick & rudder skills, plus your decision making, and leave everything else behind as you will be working under a more rigid framework of regulations, SOP's, and yes lots of paperwork.

I hope you make the switch with ease!