Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

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FalconLady
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Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by FalconLady »

Help out with a n00bie here,

What are your opinions on the Brantford flying club and Waterloo Wellington flight center?

any instructors you can recommend? (should I ask for a more experienced instructor I see from the site?)

Economically are these the most cost efficient schools?

All inputs greatly appreciated!! and carefully considered :wink:

Merci!

xx
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Last edited by FalconLady on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
nbinont
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by nbinont »

Went to WWFC myself. They have good senior instructors (can't comment on the junior instructors...since they are new since I went there). Their ground school was top notch. As it is in class C airspace, you will get exposed to heavier traffic more often and ATC. You will also spend more time waiting on the ground when it gets busy. They cater to the university programs. They are also quite conservative when it comes to weather. I eventually found scheduling to be a challenge.

Economically, it depends what you're after. PPL - just for a hobby? Or commercially?

But at the end of the day, it matters most that you can learn effectively from the instructor you're working with. Go over and take their "introductory" flight with an instructor to figure out if you can learn from the instructor. The senior instructors are usually heavily booked with IFR/Multi students. In general, the big schools prefer to keep newer pilots with newer instructors (who may not able able to teach IFR/Multi well yet).
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by FalconLady »

Yeah I get that feeling if you don't specifically ask for a I or II you are stuck with the 3's and 4's, which isn't always a bad thing because they need the opportunity too right?...

I'll be going after my PPL with some ratings added on, and just fly as a corporate pilot, not aiming for the big airlines, not my cup of tea, since I already work and have worked in the airline industry and also private/corporate jet, I figured out which one seemed more appealing just from only what I sensed from the pilots and their lifestyles, corporate seems more laid back and family-esque. I'm a pretty open book in terms of re-locating, as my current career already pertained me to do so a few times, I've learned to adjust.

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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Colonel Sanders »

As it is in class C airspace, you will get exposed to heavier traffic more often and ATC
and you'll spend a lot more money getting your PPL.
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Lotro
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Lotro »

I trained at WWFC nearly 5 years ago now. Having not done any homework, I lucked out and got a Class II instructor who was great and I had a lot of fun training. The place is heavily focused on the college and university programs however, so you end up having to fight for planes and attention if you're not in the program. After I got my PPL I rented from them for one season and then quit the club. It seemed apparent that they didn't care about my 50 hours/year as they were busy getting money from CPL student's parents.

If you're close to YKF you might want to check out Alder Aviation - http://adleraviation.com they're a smaller outfit which might get you away from the college program commotion.

On the plus side, the practice area from YKF is a short 10 minute jaunt in a 172, and there are lots of open fields to land in if you have an emergency. The fleet is relatively up to date, I just didn't like the experience after I got my license. While training, I only had a few hiccups with access to planes, but my instructor really helped me manage that (he used to phantom book planes so he always had something available).

I'm thinking about getting my CPL for "fun" and I wouldn't go back to WWFC or Brampton or anything like that. I'll try to work with someone privately who has a lot of experience, I've found that much more valuable thus far.

Good luck with your choice!

P.S. as an aside, I hate the Brantford Airport. My experiences there with traffic have been not great...
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Aviatard »

Lotro wrote: While training, I only had a few hiccups with access to planes, but my instructor really helped me manage that (he used to phantom book planes so he always had something available).
Brilliant. Gotta love a guy who's willing to screw over the other instructors to get flights in.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by FalconLady »

Hmm.. Adler doesn't sound too bad actually, I gave them a call rates aren't as bad either. Any more info on this company?

anyone could PM me if they'd like to.

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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by nbinont »

I'd also consider Stratford Air Services in Stratford (assuming it's not too far for you). They are quite good.

If you're planning on a CPL, financially it is better to go to a school registered as a Private Career College, as there are tax credits for that.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by FalconLady »

nbinont wrote:I'd also consider Stratford Air Services in Stratford (assuming it's not too far for you). They are quite good.

If you're planning on a CPL, financially it is better to go to a school registered as a Private Career College, as there are tax credits for that.
What can you say about the instructors at Stratford?

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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Trapper »

Talk to Dave Kirby or Andy Woodham, the CFI at SAS, or Bob Malchow, the CFI at BFC. They are all top notch people and instructors.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Oxi »

Kirby is a great instructor and person! Had to opportunity to teach him and fly with him.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by nbinont »

I've flown with both Dave & Andy. They are very knowledgeable and approachable.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by FalconLady »

I'm located in Toronto, and willing to go for the drive, as long as I get a good instructor. It won't cost me much on gas, compared to the hidden costs, and instructor rates up here in T.O. Plus its nice to get as much fly time and not have to wait, since I never know when I'm going to be called on for work.. and how long I'll be gone.. :roll:


All these inputs have been so amazing, I just learned about some schools I never even heard about!, and not to mention these are recent inputs, which I'm sure will help to keep in reference for others guests crawling around the site, or search engine, (as this was my only way of hearing about real experiences at a school).

I prefer training in rural areas, as I've realized and from what I read, the teaching experience comes off as more genuine, and patient. But it all comes off as not so much the school, but the instructor, and how much you are willing to soak in.

Seems like what schools I had jotted down, were ones most of you were content with, which helps the others with the elimination process :)

Keep up the great advice guys 8)

xx
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by photofly »

What are the hidden costs of flying in Toronto?
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by wud2nuq »

Stratford is a great airport with quick access to controlled airports (London, Waterloo etc.) as well as uncontrolled (Centralia, Hanover, Goderich ...)
Dave, Andy and Brian span the range of instructor experience, I've been flying with Dave for my IFR which I'll finish this spring. They do up to Commercial under the Career Colleges thing, have an active school, several planes including a G1000 172 and a newly acquired Seminole.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Colonel Sanders »

If you're on the west end, take a look at Burlington.
I haven't flown there in decades, but I rather liked
the uncontrolled airport back in the 1980's.
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lownslow
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by lownslow »

Somebody also has (or had) a satellite base operating out of Guelph.

LnS.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

lownslow wrote:Somebody also has (or had) a satellite base operating out of Guelph.

LnS.
That would be the Brampton Flying Club, at least on a seasonal basis - see http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com/rec ... ghtcentre/: "Due to Transport Canada training restrictions and operational challenges created with cold weather and winter operations, Guelph Flight Centre (GFC) will not conduct flight operations from the Guelph Airpark from Nov 30 2013 to March 21, 2014. In the interim, you are welcome to start/continue your training at the Brampton Airport
http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com/recreation/. Normal operations will resume on March 21st, 2014.

We are planning to conduct a Private Pilot Licence (PPL) ground school at GFC, Guelph Airpark in March 2014. If you are interested in taking advantage of this opportunity, please contact Valecia at info@bramfly.com or 905-838-1400 Ext. 228. GFC would like to cater the ground school around the demands of the majority."
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by jump154 »

Colonel Sanders wrote:If you're on the west end, take a look at Burlington.
I haven't flown there in decades, but I rather liked
the uncontrolled airport back in the 1980's.
+1 Give Spectrum airways a call -- Aircraft availability is pretty good, and online booking system helps to plan ahead. Uncontrolled airport - can get buys at times but I think that is a good thing, not too busy. Close to practice area and easy access to Controlled airspace at Waterloo/Hamilton/Toronto so you get experience at both.

Nice relaxed feel to school, and competetive rates. No white shirts, ties and epaulettes which keeps me happy :)

I have heard several stories of post PPL people having big scheduling issues at WWFC.

BFC at Guelph - I learned at Guelph at a now closed school , nice uncontrolled quiet airport, so not much time spent holding short and very close to practice area. Downside is the east-west runway is not available for training, so missed many lessons on a perfect day, wind was just at 90 degrees to where I needed it. Not surprised BFC shut down for winter. Bonus is I got lots of crosswind experience.

As always, book dsicovery rides, see how the place feels to you.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by zulutime »

CZBA (Burlington) is a great airport. Spectrum Airways a fine place to learn. If you're more interested in having a Class I or II instructor by your side I believe you can request that. However, keep in mind it's the Class I and II that will be doing multi IFR training as well so their avaiable hours are more difficult to get. Having said that, as long as you book well in advance via their on-line booking you can see the instructor's availability and pencil in your name as required to suit your schedule. I only flew once with another pilot in one of the schools C152's. I was not impressed. Unless money is extremely tight, (as I know it usually is for most), I would suggest flying their C172's. Good reliable instruments and GPS. I believe they typically hold ground school on Saturday's for PPL. Not sure when the next ground school starts. Uncontrolled airport as was mentioned earlier by another poster but very close to controlled airspace. Sits under the YYZ TCA so often the instructor will ask for Flight Following enroute to the practice area. This gets your ear accustomed to listening to a busier radio. Of course, everything in time. First things first like learning to fly the plane. The instructor will handle the radios for some time before getting you involved. Walk before you run as they say.

As others have suggested, take a Discovery Flight. Good luck. Always glad to see a newcomer to the wonderful world of flying.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by Broken Slinky »

Colonel Sanders wrote:
As it is in class C airspace, you will get exposed to heavier traffic more often and ATC
and you'll spend a lot more money getting your PPL.
Would the exposure to heavier traffic not be worth the additional funds?
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by photofly »

Seems to me that for any lesson you can either drive your way out of the city and back at 50kts on a crooked highway and have nothing to show for it, or you can fly direct both ways at 105kts and log the time.

I know which I'd rather do.
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by boogs82 »

If you're willing to drive that far west i would suggest looking a bit North too. You'd have access to two schools at Lake Simcoe Regional or one in Orillia. Depending on where you are in Toronto you're looking at an hour to hour and a half drive.

Future Air and Genesis at Lake Simcoe Regional just north of Barrie
Lake Country Airways in Orillia
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by FL-510 »

FalconLady wrote:Yeah I get that feeling if you don't specifically ask for a I or II you are stuck with the 3's and 4's, which isn't always a bad thing because they need the opportunity too right?...
Are you suggesting a class 3 or 4 flight instructor can't train a PPL.... This is ridiculous!
And I also went over that you are only looking for a PPL with ratings to fly for a corporate company this is also ridiculous.

One pissed off class 3 flight instructor!
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Re: Advice?! Brantford Flying Club vs WWFC?!

Post by photofly »

Are you suggesting a class 3 or 4 flight instructor can't train a PPL.
That is actually a well-known fact on this site.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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