To be a pilot or not...

[b745]

I wanted to discuss this here, with fellow pilots and aspiring pilots... I am currently in training, have my PPL and now working towards commercial... and my problem is, and has been for a while, that I don't know if I really want this... some days I want it bad, others I don't even want to get in the plane... I think if I didn't do this, would I regret it? I see pictures like these http://www.lifebuzz.com/cockpit-photos/ and think to myself "How can I not do this?" but at the same time, the poor starting pay, poor work conditions, all the negativity, terrible bureaucracy, horrible hours... I thought I was ready for that, but I'm really not... we put in so much hard work and dedication to be treated like nothing once we finish, where others are a lot better off if they put in the hard work and are very good at what they do... I know other jobs can be crappy too, I know they have bureaucracies, it's just... well it's just confusion for me at the moment really, or more of I don't want to regret giving this up later on in life

[Airmanship Police]

Best advise I can give you. Stop lurking here. It will make you hate the industry. If you like aviation, knowing its downside, go for it. Finish your training and start working and enjoy every minute of it. Then find a hobby you like and so something else with your spare time. Don't come here too much because everybody else's problem/rant/bitching that don't even concern you will start bothering you and you will hate your life and everything will start to piss you off and you'll start drinking...

Good luck!

[North Shore]

Assuming that you are reasonably young (early 20's?):

Quit. Take some time (a year?) off from flying. Get an office lackey job somewhere, become a trades apprentice, roam around Australia chasing girls, go and become a rigpig, go to University/College. that should give you some perspective, and you won't have lost that much time in the grand scheme of things..

Good luck!

[GyvAir]

If you take North Shore's advice - and there is much merit to it - I'd recommend finishing whatever rating you're working on first, if you're even remotely close. Should you go back to flying, it's much easier to motivate yourself starting from a milestone than from some random point of having just walked away.

[Pop n Fresh]

From experience you might not finish your CPL if you don't really know if you want it.

Flying is one of my all time favorite things. I'm coming to terms with the fact maybe it was better to not have had to do it for work. Maybe I'd love it. Guys here say it's not as fun when someone is telling you, "Fly this bad smelling dead stuff to Fort NoWhere Lake."

[pilotdreams]

I'm in the same position as you. Its taking me forever to finish my CPL training because I spend most of my time thinking of how I am supposed to be a single dad and a fresh CPL pilot. I guess the reason I cant come to a good plan is because there simply isn't one. If I got a job tomorrow as a first officer on a twin otter, I wouldn't be able to look after her and myself.

I'm thinking its best to find a trade where I make good money AND have a family oriented schedule. Use my multi ifr money on a homebuilt amphib. I know how you feel man, Im so confused it makes me sick. Atleast we live in a country where we have options to think about.

[b745]

Well to put things more into perspective, im 20 years old, and I did actually take a year off, for a few reasons, one being that I wasn't sure if this is what I want... I worked two crappy jobs which made me run like hell back to school, I thought that flying was definitely for me... Until I went back and had to start putting up with all the BS... At this point I don't think taking another year off is a great idea, I have ideas of what I like so I would just have to make a choice between the 2... I've talked to several depressed pilots so I've heard all the stories (or read them...) and unfortunately that didn't help paint a good picture for me... It's really tough...

[trampbike]

I've talked to several depressed pilots so I've heard all the stories (or read them...) and unfortunately that didn't help paint a good picture for me... It's really tough...

There are bored and depressed guys in every fields of work you can imagine...

Go through the 84 pages of this awesome thread. It might help just a bit
http://avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=31028

[trey kule]

If you are asking yourself the question, it is probably time to do other things.

The road after you get the basic skills is typically a tough one. If you love just to fly you will have a better chance of sticking it out. The decision to pursue a career in aviation is seldom a rational one. I have seen a few who had their career go pretty much as planned but for the majority at does not happen. You have to love to fly to get through those times.

After many decades in the business and getting ready to be put out to pasture, I still find myself looking up when a little plane flys over if I have not flown for a week or two. Just my opinion though,

[Navajo Flyer]

I've always said..."to succeed in aviation it is simply the one who can live on puffed wheat the longest".

[davecessna]

You think piloting is full of depressed workers, try engineering. I still remember the dean of engineering's orientation speech to the freshmen, "it's all glamour, respect, innovation, opportunity."

Then you get into the industry and you're inserted between a piston and a rock. The first thing I was told was engineers are basically "high-tech, low pay."

Do I regret it? Absolutely not, but the initial naivete is completely typical in any profession. Nothing good in life is easy.

[flyinthebug]

I usually encourage all young people that want to fly to follow their dream. If you are waffling now though, it will just get worse when you are faced with the reality of finding that first job, putting up with low pay for a few years, and dealing with northern operations. Ive always told people that unless aviation is a passion, its likely not for you.

It took me several years to get from my PPL to CPL but every single day I wanted it more than anything else I could think of. If I had waffled and been unsure like you are feeling, I doubt that aviation would have been even half as rewarding for me as it has been. You have to LOVE flying if your going to have a shot at the left seat of something that will give you decent pay and lifestyle. Its a long road and if your unhappy while your still in training, my guess is you would be very unhappy with the actual lifestyle.

Might be time to look for another career path.
My 2 cents.

Fly safe all.

[b745]

Yea see that's the problem... I USED to love flying, USED is key...I would always go plane spotting and dream of being up in the sky, even when I started flying I thought it was amazing and that this is what I want... I hit some really rough patches as I mentioned, which had nothing to do with aviation, in fact, aviation is what still kept me motivated, but it has since slowly turned the other way. I know engineering is not easy, neither is medicine, neither is law school, nothing on this plant is easy (there's only a handful of people who have it easy...), I just find it sickening that pilots have to work for such low pay (~25,000 - 30,000 a year) starting until they actually get somewhere... I don't think engineers start that low, I have friends still in school doing intern-ships, yes, not even finished school, making more money then starting jobs at major airlines (Granted they're really good) or friends who are finished school in whatever, making more then what a pilot starts out with... anyways I know this makes me seem that I'm only after the money (no doubt money will be a factor in anything, you have to live...) but for the amount of hard work and dedication (not to mention the amount of money you drop on flying) you have to put in to be a good pilot, it's just sad compared to others that put in the hard work for whatever they may be doing... Sorry I know i'm ranting on but there's still the part of me who wants this badly and I'm just trying to overcome the obstacles in the way

[JDW]

To play a little devils advocate, I took the non-aviation path, following a last minute switch out of uwo's commercial aviation program, based on what I thought would be a more stable career. That being said, I will always have second thoughts about my decision. I'm currently going down the long road to becoming a lawyer and like aviation there are a lot of high expectations meeting reality. After taking a 4 year undergrad in a math based area that I found extremely difficult, I am starting what will now be 3 more years of law school. Following school, assuming I can find an articling position (which are becoming harder and harder to come by), I will then article for a year before taking the bar exam and becoming a lawyer 8 years after I started my education. That is 8 years without being able to have a full time job or make much real income, to then be in a position where I may or may not find a job (there are no guarantees unless you graduate in the top end of your class), where i will work 90 hours a week as a lackey for the first 5-10 years before getting a chance to breathe (pay starts relatively low considering the hours as well). There have been many times in the past, and I'm sure there will be many more instances in the future, where I will regret not taking the aviation path. Did I make the right decision? Only time will tell. The one thing that I know for sure is that aviation is not unique in its long hard path required to being successful. By the time I become a lawyer, I could have spent 1 year getting a cpl and had 7 years of experience behind me and that is with me taking the short path. Many law students I know took 2 or more years to do masters degrees as well meaning 10+ years of education before they go out into the world! I guess what I'm trying to say is there is not quick and easy path to a career that is fulfilling and financially rewarding and they all come with unique trade-offs. Be that as it may, when school or work get really rough, I can go rent a cessna for an hour and still feel that rush I had on my first fam flight 5+ years ago and I'm glad that hasnt dissipated. Of course, this is your life and not a decision to be take lightly. Just never forget, the grass is always greener.

[trampbike]

for the amount of hard work and dedication (not to mention the amount of money you drop on flying) you have to put in to be a good pilot, it's just sad compared to others that put in the hard work for whatever they may be doing

In this world, the payscale is not decided by some moral standards, where you earn what you "deserve" (whatever that's supposed to mean). You get paid for what you are worth on the market, and that's it. Low time pilots are a dime a dozen. Get over it.
And anyway, even if pay was related to your "efforts", engineers would still have to be paid more than low time pilots. It is much harder to be an engineer than to get a CPL and a valid medical.

[ant_321]

I'm not trying to crush your dreams or anything, but my advice is run. When I was in flight school I lived for it! I punched. 100 hour weeks and was awake waiting for my alarm clock to go off at 5am to be the first at the school in the morning. I would sit in the building all day hoping for someone to not show up so I could get an extra flight in. I carried that enthusiasm all through training, through an instructor rating and just over a year of instructing. Now 2 years later as a 1900 fo with almost 2500 hours I am questioning if it's worth it. All of my friends are coming out of school/becoming journeymen and making 80+k a year. I guess the point of my story is' if you are finding it hard to be motivated now it will be next to impossible to stay motivated after you've been flying for a couple years.

[jjbaker]

Its really about finding what makes you tick in the world of aviation. I spoke with an ultra old flight instructor 20 years ago, when I wondered if I wanted to pursue the field of aviation or focus on other things. He said: There are airplane people and there are people people. Meaning, you can be a guy/ gal who is in it because of iron (bigger = better, always hunting the next bigger airframe, looking for prestige and recognition) or you could be in it because aviation people are a special breed that allow you to connect and your connection to flying is more romantic. Maybe its the lifestyle for you. Flying for fun and flying for a living are extremely different things and the changes you will experience are fluid, with the picture always staying translucent enough to keep trying to see things clearer.

Flying for a living can mean being on the top, finding the sand castle crumble and being back to starving rat mode a few weeks later.
When you start somewhere new, you may not start on the left seat, seniority is good only while the operation is open. The number of destroyed existences is mind boggling, yet people rush into it, blinders down, ears tugged, deaf and blind to reality.

The one thing I can tell you is that if you don't try, you can't know. Depressed people are found everywhere, many of them with damn good reason to be pessimistic many of them just unhappy with what life threw at them. Some of those people are unhappy anywhere they go. If you steer clear of them, you may shield yourself from learning some true facts about this industry, if you associate too much, they will drag you down and kill your passion. Choose the middle path.

For a while I loved the people and didn't care for the airplanes too much. Then I started caring for the airplanes (in reality a pretty amazing machine we didn't have just a short 120 years ago) and didn't care for the people much. After getting all those ratings and certificates, I looked around and saw little opportunity. Some gigs here of there, at least flying commercially, using my tickets, but always wondering if to continue or not. I decided not to because I have more fun in a glider or seaplane than I can have dressed like a clown making a lousy $150/ day flying some snob around. I met many more good people in aviation than bad people. Even though I didn't make a living out of it, I am glad I did what I did.

Nobody can really tell you what to do and how to do it. You need to do it in order to make a informed decision.
Its up to you to decide if you want to turn around and walk away, decide to fly for fun, never reaching higher or go full bore pedal to the metal forward and up. Remember, the return path is almost always open and along the way you will find buddies, friends and enemies.

Don't find yourself 76 years old wondering "what if I had...?".

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable.
Sydney J. Harris

[brownbear]

Flying is a great hobby.

As soon as anything is a job it will wear on a person.

Forget about money for a little bit while you decide what you want. Even if you go the aviation route you are young enough that you will get through the painful years quicker than most. Money and safety doesn't come until you reach 705 cat. Sure you can make decent money flying a Twin Otter as a Capt. But you don't have safety. So the end goal must be to get to the airlines.

I would pick something that makes money but doesn't feel like a job. We always mention engineer, doctor etc, or trades.. But what about starting a business, or buying into one? your success is your happiness.

If you do it right you can buy your own plane. Fly on nice days.

[altiplano]

I agree on that, airline is where you want to go. If you couldn't guarantee an eventual career in a relatively stable 705 airline I would go the other way. Only a fraction make it through though and the time in the trenches getting there is little reward for lots of risk... and most never even get that first job in the trenches...

Some get there(airline) fast(luck)some take a decade or more(perseverance), some never make it(sucks).

So ask yourself: Do you have the luck and perseverance to make it or is it going to suck?

[altiplano]

I'm not trying to crush your dreams or anything, but my advice is run. When I was in flight school I lived for it! I punched. 100 hour weeks and was awake waiting for my alarm clock to go off at 5am to be the first at the school in the morning. I would sit in the building all day hoping for someone to not show up so I could get an extra flight in. I carried that enthusiasm all through training, through an instructor rating and just over a year of instructing. Now 2 years later as a 1900 fo with almost 2500 hours I am questioning if it's worth it. All of my friends are coming out of school/becoming journeymen and making 80+k a year. I guess the point of my story is' if you are finding it hard to be motivated now it will be next to impossible to stay motivated after you've been flying for a couple years.

No offense man, and don't take it the wrong way. I know it's a grind but you've got a pretty good start. From what I gather from your posts...
2 years into your career. At an AC tier 3. On a 1900. 3 on 3 off schedule. Living in a decent city.

You're kinda in the cream of the shitpile, know that there is way worse and you're on a good path to being one of the lucky ones fast on with an airline. Is it worth it? If you do ladder this to an airline it will be, but you've hardly crawled through the worst of it to get there and you're 2 years in... See how you feel if you're still there or at a worse spot 10 years in.

[b745]

Not sure what you guys mean by 705 cat... and yes airline is ultimately where I want to end up and I realize it's a lot of dedication, sleepless nights, long hours, etc etc... I am the type of personality that's stubborn and won't give up until I get what I want, it's always been that way, and every time I wanted something, I usually got it, so yes I do perceiver and I do work to get there if I really want it bad, it's just working through the crap that's here right now, and it's really pointless crap and stupid things to deal with. I can say that every time I get behind the yoke, deep down i'm still amazed that someone gave me a piece of paper saying i'm allowed to fly a plane... it's truly amazing and i've always appreciated, respected, and enjoyed the responsibility that came with putting a big piece of metal in the sky, it really is an amazing gift that we are given to able to do what we do, whether for fun or as a job... not many people get this opportunity, but like I mentioned it's just to bad the fun and beauty of flying is ruined by people with interests in dollar signs or more power, inevitably that's the sad truth, at least that's my opinion... hopefully I will mange to get over the stage I'm at right now and continue to pursue what i've always wanted and stop thinking in the negative

[ant_321]

I'm not trying to crush your dreams or anything, but my advice is run. When I was in flight school I lived for it! I punched. 100 hour weeks and was awake waiting for my alarm clock to go off at 5am to be the first at the school in the morning. I would sit in the building all day hoping for someone to not show up so I could get an extra flight in. I carried that enthusiasm all through training, through an instructor rating and just over a year of instructing. Now 2 years later as a 1900 fo with almost 2500 hours I am questioning if it's worth it. All of my friends are coming out of school/becoming journeymen and making 80+k a year. I guess the point of my story is' if you are finding it hard to be motivated now it will be next to impossible to stay motivated after you've been flying for a couple years.

No offense man, and don't take it the wrong way. I know it's a grind but you've got a pretty good start. From what I gather from your posts...
2 years into your career. At an AC tier 3. On a 1900. 3 on 3 off schedule. Living in a decent city.

You're kinda in the cream of the shitpile, know that there is way worse and you're on a good path to being one of the lucky ones fast on with an airline. Is it worth it? If you do ladder this to an airline it will be, but you've hardly crawled through the worst of it to get there and you're 2 years in... See how you feel if you're still there or at a worse spot 10 years in.

I agree 100% and don't get me wrong I know I am very fortunate to be where I am at this point in my career. I was one of the lucky ones for sure, being in the right place at the right time. I still stand by my point though. If you aren't having a blast in flight school and having second thoughts then this probably isn't for you.

[b745]

Well to be fair and honest, I didn't start the topic in the right mind set, I can safely and confidently say a lot of people in my flight school aren't enjoying it as much as they could

[altiplano]

_321
I see what you mean now, I misunderstood and see now what you were pointing out to the OP.

b745
705=airlines.
as for the too bad fun and beauty ruined by money and power blah blah... you need to "get over this stage" and suck it up dude. what isn't tainted in this world by something along those lines? if you want to do this get an eye on the prize and get going. bitching about the lost purity of flight is a waste of your effort because it takes most people all of the efforts they can muster to get off the ground in this business. It is a highly coveted job that for one reason or another most people who try will not get, let alone reach the airlines. this business isn't some neatly layed out walk in the park with fun, good paying jobs and nice bosses lining a path of roses to the airline fountain.

[tbaylx]

Not sure what you guys mean by 705 cat... and yes airline is ultimately where I want to end up and I realize it's a lot of dedication, sleepless nights, long hours, etc etc... I am the type of personality that's stubborn and won't give up until I get what I want, it's always been that way, and every time I wanted something, I usually got it, so yes I do perceiver and I do work to get there if I really want it bad, it's just working through the crap that's here right now, and it's really pointless crap and stupid things to deal with. I can say that every time I get behind the yoke, deep down i'm still amazed that someone gave me a piece of paper saying i'm allowed to fly a plane... it's truly amazing and i've always appreciated, respected, and enjoyed the responsibility that came with putting a big piece of metal in the sky, it really is an amazing gift that we are given to able to do what we do, whether for fun or as a job... not many people get this opportunity, but like I mentioned it's just to bad the fun and beauty of flying is ruined by people with interests in dollar signs or more power, inevitably that's the sad truth, at least that's my opinion... hopefully I will mange to get over the stage I'm at right now and continue to pursue what i've always wanted and stop thinking in the negative

It's a business, with people in it to make money, though most seem to lose a lot along the way trying.

No one gives 2 hoots about the "dreams of flight" and all the romance of aviation crap except either a- new pilots who haven't spent much time or any time in the business, or b- flight schools and Hollywood who are also trying to sell something and make money.

If you want to keep it magical, fly as a hobby.

It's a decent job with an awful lot of hoops to jump through and a seniority pay system that recognizes time at a company, but not experience. Not much fun if your company goes bankrupt after 10 years of working there. It's a great job on a good day, a decent job most of the time and a killer (literally, financially, relationships etc.) on a bad day.

Glad i'm still flying, but would never encourage my kids to start.