New hire bids

[Hysteria]

I understand. no flow, crap schedules, low pay and so on. It's bleak for sure.

Can’t say that enough, my biggest regret in aviation was coming to Jazz. Any clue why the union proposed an MOS to the pilot group without dealing the exclusivity/flow?

Like, why even bother proposing 30% when AC is going to do what whatever it wants

do you know whether or not encore flow to WJ mainline is terrible as well?

[hsilgnepilot]

Can’t say that enough, my biggest regret in aviation was coming to Jazz. Any clue why the union proposed an MOS to the pilot group without dealing the exclusivity/flow?

Like, why even bother proposing 30% when AC is going to do what whatever it wants

do you know whether or not encore flow to WJ mainline is terrible as well?

If you want to go to AC, go to Encore.
If you want to go to WJ, go to Jazz.
Major airlines love pulling from their competitors regionals rather than their own, and who can blame them?

[Nick678]

Like, why even bother proposing 30% when AC is going to do what whatever it wants

do you know whether or not encore flow to WJ mainline is terrible as well?

If you want to go to AC, go to Encore.
If you want to go to WJ, go to Jazz.
Major airlines love pulling from their competitors regionals rather than their own, and who can blame them?

That was basically the reason they started PML/flow and the one list in the first place. At least encore pilots going to WJ get to keep their DOH (except new hires) jazz pilots lost 1000 numbers at AC and got nothing…..

[Scoob]

12/11/2023
New hire positions:

6 CRJ YVR
8 Q400 YYC

[flyingb]

AC 2024 hiring will be on the order of 500-600. Not sure how many Jazz ‘60%’ pilots are going to qualify. ATPL and 2000 hours to apply. Quite a few of the pre-MOA pilots will still not meet that criteria to apply during 2024.

AC 2025 hiring will likely normalize. So perhaps 200-300(?) depending on the economy. These will be the spots that the last of the 60% Jazz pilots will be trying to fill. Then the 30% pilots will be up to bat. It is entirely possible that quite a few of the post-MOA Jazz hires (30% pilots) will leapfrog the pre-MOA Jazz pilots that are still not eligible to apply.

So bottom line - an experienced Jazz new-hire hired now may actually be at AC within 18 months. It would require a confluence of demographics but the lower the experience level at Jazz (college direct) the more likely that later hires will be in the AC hiring portal first. No idea how they plan to administer sorting out the 30% pilots from the 60% pilots (more proof that the MOA is fatally flawed).

What was required was a flow arrangement with more predictability and more certainty. That did not happen.

The music at AC is going to stop playing sometime during 2025. Probably in the first half of the year. Last one on the carousel will be junior for a very long time. And competition to be hired into limited vacancies will become the norm. Spots for Jazz pilots will be measured in the dozens.

Some pilots were in the right place at the right time. Lottery ticket. Others are going to see a much slower progression (return to normal). This is what makes opportunities like Porter look so attractive.

Thanks for the response. That’s very helpful. Would strongly consider Porter but I’m staying in the West. Porter seems to be hiring for a long while.

My thought was, with all of the movement and people leaving Jazz for retirement, AC, Porter, WJ, one could become senior fairly quickly whilst they flow in 3 years. But anything beyond 3 years - I don’t think I could exercise enough patience.

Preface: I've been at Jazz for close to 18 months.

I'm in the top half of the seniority list for YYZ CRJ First Officers and I'm still on reserve. If I were to upgrade to Captain, I would be in the bottom rung of the YYZ CRJ Captain list. If I were to transfer to YUL, I'd still be on reserve. If I were to transfer to YYC, I'd be bottom of the list.

The only place I could hold good seniority right now is YVR, but that's only because we lost many of our pilots from there to Air Canada because they were supposed to flow BEFORE the pandemic. That doesn't matter though because I can't afford to live in YVR with my current salary.

Make of that what you will, but it was in response to your idea that you could build good seniority while you wait here.

It's been said before: Seriously, don't come here if Air Canada is your goal.

I think you might have to check your details out a little better. Most junior block holder in YUL is a June 2023 hire. So if you’ve been at jazz for 18 months. You’d be a line holder no problem.

YYZ roster has 76 FO’s with 25 lines of reserve in January. If you’re in the top half like you say, there is no reason you can’t be a block holder unless you’re screwing up your bid. Just have to check a little better what your seniority can actually hold..

[rudder]

12/11/2023
New hire positions:

6 CRJ YVR
8 Q400 YYC

No e-jet positions.

170 line pilots on the E175 for December. Should be closer to 300 if the fleet was being fully utilized. Even SKV had 280 pilots for 25 fins.

Has to make you wonder where that fleet is going to end up. 10 of the 25 tails are leases. Hiring and training for summer 2024 should be happening now. Maybe a message is being sent?

There should be an equipment bid in January. That may tell all.

[hithere]

Porter just announced they will be replacing the Dash8-400 with the Embraer on their YHZ-YYT, YHZ-YOW and YHZ-YUL routes starting in April 2024. I’d be very surprised if AC does not start putting some type of jet on those city pairs in response.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/p ... 52251.html

[twa22]

Porter just announced they will be replacing the Dash8-400 with the Embraer on their YHZ-YYT, YHZ-YOW and YHZ-YUL routes starting in April 2024. I’d be very surprised if AC does not start putting some type of jet on those city pairs in response.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/p ... 52251.html

Yhz-yul is operated year round by AC mainline or Rouge, as for the other 2 routes, time will tell.

What will be very, very interesting to see is if Porter does launch an E2 base in YHZ. With 75 tails on order, if it does come to fruition, I suspect it will reach far beyond just E1 pilots at Jazz continuing to jump ship.

[truedude]

12/11/2023
New hire positions:

6 CRJ YVR
8 Q400 YYC

No e-jet positions.

170 line pilots on the E175 for December. Should be closer to 300 if the fleet was being fully utilized. Even SKV had 280 pilots for 25 fins.

Has to make you wonder where that fleet is going to end up. 10 of the 25 tails are leases. Hiring and training for summer 2024 should be happening now. Maybe a message is being sent?

There should be an equipment bid in January. That may tell all.

F/As keep getting told rumors of a plan to hire a 100 F/As in the spring.... to staff what, I don't know? Something the tells me someone at AC is playing with made up pilot staffing levels that won't be at all obtainable for a planned summer schedule. I keep thinking it is like the last days in the bunker... orders going out to divisions that don't actually exist.

[hithere]

In which base are FA’s being told of hiring next year? Any FA I’ve flown with just says status quo since they are still offering low blocks and LOAs

[rudder]

954 line pilots for December. Pretty sure that is the lowest number in the last 20 years (or perhaps the lowest number since the AC/CDN regional consolidation in 2001). Bid 2023-01 called for 1326 positions.

The numbers speak for themselves.

[cykj]

954 line pilots for December. Pretty sure that is the lowest number in the last 20 years (or perhaps the lowest number since the AC/CDN regional consolidation in 2001). Bid 2023-01 called for 1326 positions.

The numbers speak for themselves.

Wow...

[rudder]

954 line pilots for December. Pretty sure that is the lowest number in the last 20 years (or perhaps the lowest number since the AC/CDN regional consolidation in 2001). Bid 2023-01 called for 1326 positions.

The numbers speak for themselves.

Wow...

Jazz pilot seniority list June 2021 - 1726 pilots.

December 2023 - 1231 pilots.

[Inverted2]

This is the first time in Jazz history the seniority list came out 1 day early instead of 5 days late.

[rudder]

Food for thought - there are enough type specific rostered pilots to staff 15 E175/35 CRJ/30 Q400 (perhaps not a coincidence that it adds up to 80 fins?). Approximately 950 pilots required. AC just released the summer 2024 new routes and frequencies. Most of the Express increased summer flying will operated by the CRJ.

I wonder if that is the final 2024 plan?

The company seems to have all but given up on E175 staffing. Recovery to SKV staffing level would only happen if the next 100 new-hires were assigned to the e-jet.

10 unused 175’s can go in for the interior refit (a long term commitment) or perhaps back to the third party lessor. Or perhaps continue to fly the leased 175’s while the AC owned 175’s get the interior refit investment.

The January equipment bid predicts the summer 2024 Express schedule (less the PAL allocated flying). It should be interesting and will certainly describe the future of the E175 fleet at Express.

Jazz took back the CRJ200’s from GGN in 2019. Shortly the CRJ200’s will be gone.

The E175’s were transferred in 2021. Wonder what the story will be for the former SKV e-jet fleet in 2024?

[SamuelTheKitty]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

[cdnavater]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

[flyingcanuck]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

In the same manner as your message, who gives a @#$!. They pay almost min wage to fly jets around the US and Canada. They take advantage of pilots as much as they can. There is no loyalty to these companies, as there is no respect to us either.

[QKZXKV]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

The proper way is to look out for yourself and not the corporate hacks... Who gives a **** about the training expense. It's wise to take the job now and get a # in case other plans don't work out. Maybe you lack some of that planning mentality at the expense of corporate loyalty.

[Nick678]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

It changes by the month but there is more than usual reserve covered in yyz. It’s a 2 hour call out window to the gate and it may take 6-8 months just to hold some flying. I can’t comment on how much flying to going to reserve. But even with a full block you’ll be flying 400-700 hours a year. Also no guarantee you’ll get the jet. If you go this route remember that jazz hasn’t respected its contract and there should no hard feelings when you jump ship. 2 week notice is optional.

[Westerncanuck]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

The proper way is to look out for yourself and not the corporate hacks... Who gives a **** about the training expense. It's wise to take the job now and get a # in case other plans don't work out. Maybe you lack some of that planning mentality at the expense of corporate loyalty.

BS. I will be sending this thread to the DFO to keep an eye out for applications from rotary pilots with this experience. Pretty sure she won’t be impressed.

[cdnavater]

I’m a military pilot who is planning on jumping ship and heading to the USA (my wife is a citizen).

I’ve got about ~3600TT, the majority of which is rotary wing time, although I'm currently assigned to a fixed wing platform. I hold all the TC/FAA licenses/certificates I am eligible to hold, but I’m a couple hundred hours short of airplane hours for my ATPL-A. SAMRON/SAMRA/Conversion exams are all written.

I basically need a place to park myself to accumulate the last couple hundred hours on airplanes to fulfil ATP license eligibility and maybe get a bit of jet time while I wait for the immigration process to churn and (hopefully) move onto a US legacy.

Is Jazz a reasonable place to hang out for 6-8 months while I wait? I’d like to start flying relatively soon after date of hire and not to not have to move to Toronto (I’m down the road about 2 hour drive from YYZ).

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

In the same manner as your message, who gives a @#$!. They pay almost min wage to fly jets around the US and Canada. They take advantage of pilots as much as they can. There is no loyalty to these companies, as there is no respect to us either.

You know, you’re right, come on over buddy but like Nick said, no guarantee you’ll get the jet or even log your 200 hours in the time fram you’re looking at.
This is a sure way for a company to start looking at bonds, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t yet.
Anyhow, companies that don’t have a bond often supplement the training costs with lower pay, pretty hard to justify raising it when a high percentage leave early. Probably why they are hiring non marketable pilots with 750 hours, they have no where to go

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

The proper way is to look out for yourself and not the corporate hacks... Who gives a **** about the training expense. It's wise to take the job now and get a # in case other plans don't work out. Maybe you lack some of that planning mentality at the expense of corporate loyalty.

BS. I will be sending this thread to the DFO to keep an eye out for applications from rotary pilots with this experience. Pretty sure she won’t be impressed.

I’m sure they already have eyes on avcanada. Let management make their own decisions regarding candidates. No need to go “tell mommy”. The amount of 6-12 month jazz pilots going to porter and other airlines is already staggering.

Edited for spelling

[QKZXKV]

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

The proper way is to look out for yourself and not the corporate hacks... Who gives a **** about the training expense. It's wise to take the job now and get a # in case other plans don't work out. Maybe you lack some of that planning mentality at the expense of corporate loyalty.

BS. I will be sending this thread to the DFO to keep an eye out for applications from rotary pilots with this experience. Pretty sure she won’t be impressed.

Bahaha, the almighty DFO of Jazz

[QKZXKV]

Hey, good for you and take this how it’s intended, @#$! off!
Do you think it’s reasonable a company spends 50 grand on you when you fully intend on leaving before they get anything back.
I hear Porter is hiring but I wouldn’t mention your plan during the interview

In the same manner as your message, who gives a @#$!. They pay almost min wage to fly jets around the US and Canada. They take advantage of pilots as much as they can. There is no loyalty to these companies, as there is no respect to us either.

You know, you’re right, come on over buddy but like Nick said, no guarantee you’ll get the jet or even log your 200 hours in the time fram you’re looking at.
This is a sure way for a company to start looking at bonds, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t yet.
Anyhow, companies that don’t have a bond often supplement the training costs with lower pay, pretty hard to justify raising it when a high percentage leave early. Probably why they are hiring non marketable pilots with 750 hours, they have no where to go

oohh the big bad bond. Until a person able to go to the US goes and gets one of those signing bonuses and laughs off a bond.

Man people on here love their ludicrous empty threats.