Flight attendants are only paid when the plane is in motion.

[Fanblade]

Is this a Air Canada thing or is this industry wide.

If you are talking about only getting paid brakes off to brakes set? Industry wide. It has been the norm for decades.

We work 80 “brakes off to brakes set” hours a month. That in general approximates a 160 hour work month of actual at work time.

Traditionally our “brakes off to brakes set” rate was double to compensate. Today the rate is no longer high enough to properly compensate for the work being done outside of “brakes off to brakes set”

[rudder]

Is this a Air Canada thing or is this industry wide.

If you are talking about only getting paid brakes off to brakes set? Industry wide. It has been the norm for decades.

We work 80 “brakes off to brakes set” hours a month. That in general approximates a 160 hour work month of actual at work time.

Traditionally our “brakes off to brakes set” rate was double to compensate. Today the rate is no longer high enough to properly compensate for the work being done outside of “brakes off to brakes set”

CUPE is being careful not to suggest that this practice is illegal. It is legal. It is called ‘piecework’.

What CUPE is calling for is changes in the CLC to make it no longer legal.

The Jazz FA’s were able to add language to the CBA that ensures (on a province-by-province basis) that a domiciled FA cannot be paid for the entire month on a less than minimum wage basis. So, likely this matter belongs at the bargaining table, unless Jagmeet and Justin decide otherwise.

[TalkingPie]

The way I see it, labour is playing management's game. If it's fair play for the company to influence the government to reduce crew complement, to threaten legislation to force legally-striking workers back to work, and the long list of other things that AC does, the only reasonable play is for the union to be involved in politics, too.

This isn't a new story, either. Most worker's rights had to be fought for. And again, if AC hadn't diddled pay rates down to below a living wage, we wouldn't be seeing this movement to overhauling the pay system, at all.

[hsilgnepilot]

It blows my mind how set they are on this sole topic. I work at TS and it’s all the FAs talk about.

Yeah you’re not getting paid for 1 hour of boarding on your “one leg” to Europe, and you’re already the highest paid hourly flight attendants in Canada.

This whole ground and boarding pay would make more sense at a company like Jazz or Porter where they’re doing a lot more legs per day, but worrying about it for long haul where it would severely impact the hourly rate is insane.

They have no clue what can of worms they’re opening. As soon as I mention pilots aren’t paid either they say “well you make more money anyway”. Those comments alone go to show the type of people you’re dealing with.

[Me262]

It blows my mind how set they are on this sole topic. I work at TS and it’s all the FAs talk about.

Yeah you’re not getting paid for 1 hour of boarding on your “one leg” to Europe, and you’re already the highest paid hourly flight attendants in Canada.

This whole ground and boarding pay would make more sense at a company like Jazz or Porter where they’re doing a lot more legs per day, but worrying about it for long haul where it would severely impact the hourly rate is insane.

They have no clue what can of worms they’re opening. As soon as I mention pilots aren’t paid either they say “well you make more money anyway”. Those comments alone go to show the type of people you’re dealing with.

Do we? Can we have a list on AC/TS/etc on what a FA make? MMG? etc?

[TalkingPie]

Do we? Can we have a list on AC/TS/etc on what a FA make? MMG? etc?

Starting pay at AC for FAs in 2024 is $30.02 at 75 hours MMG for reserve, 65 on block. So $27,018 for 75 hours. 100 hours is the max allowed (and would be brutal on the kind of schedules that juniors are forced to work, assuming a reserve schedule would even allow it). By way of comparison, federal minimum wage is $17.30, giving $35,984 for someone working a 40 hour work week.

On the upper end, a service director working only on the 777 or 787 - you likely need a couple of decades' seniority to hold these - makes $87.01/hr, so $78,309 at 75 hours. Working productive overseas pairings on these would allow 100 hours much more easily, if so inclined to tough out the 14 hour time changes to Asia.

[Me262]

Do we? Can we have a list on AC/TS/etc on what a FA make? MMG? etc?

Starting pay at AC for FAs in 2024 is $30.02 at 75 hours MMG for reserve, 65 on block. So $27,018 for 75 hours. 100 hours is the max allowed (and would be brutal on the kind of schedules that juniors are forced to work, assuming a reserve schedule would even allow it). By way of comparison, federal minimum wage is $17.30, giving $35,984 for someone working a 40 hour work week.

On the upper end, a service director working only on the 777 or 787 - you likely need a couple of decades' seniority to hold these - makes $87.01/hr, so $78,309 at 75 hours. Working productive overseas pairings on these would allow 100 hours much more easily, if so inclined to tough out the 14 hour time changes to Asia.

This is absolutely atrocious. And I assume regionals pay even less.

Worst of all, they have to deal with people!

[goingnowherefast]

I'm surprised attrition and labour market forces haven't fixed that. Go make 9 grand a year more working at Starbucks. A 1st year FA should last maybe 3 months after training before getting an offer in another industry for 33% more.

[TalkingPie]

I'm surprised attrition and labour market forces haven't fixed that. Go make 9 grand a year more working at Starbucks. A 1st year FA should last maybe 3 months after training before getting an offer in another industry for 33% more.

That is happening. AC doesn't admit it, but they're having trouble hiring. They removed the requirement for a high school diploma a couple of years ago, they're scrambling to crew flights in some of the summer months, and there's constant turnover among juniors. Coming off of the pandemic, trainers were told to "help" new-hires answer exam questions during initial training rather than letting anyone fail. Where the company used to grant educational leaves of absences to cabin crew who wanted to pursue studies (such as pilot training), ever since the pandemic they reject all requests due to being short-staffed. Like with pilots, the company has elected to lower standards and roll the dice with the future rather than proactively investing to attract quality candidates.

And as I said before, the company advertises the job as "$30 per hour," without giving any context of flight credit hours, so 18 year-olds fresh out of high school or Tim Horton's often don't know how bad the pay is. Couple that with the allure of travel and, for certain demographics, the "sexy" image of the job, and you have lots of people who try it out, do it for a couple of years, and move on.

Seniors are entrenched enough in the job that it's difficult to retrain and start over again elsewhere. If you're already middle-aged, making $60k, aren't used to 40 hour weeks, have a DB pension you don't want to lose, have put a decade or two into building seniority, and the outside world sees you as a waitress, it's a tough climb to start over in a new field, so you make like a frog in a slowly-boiling pot. Add to that, almost everyone is stretched thin financially, which always limits options for making positive career changes.

And so you wind up with a whole lot of employees with little esteem for their employer and a union who's fed up with losing ground decade over decade. (Sound familiar?) And thus, initiatives like "pay for boarding."

[Rooster69]

…and the perks of working for an airline have paled over the years. No ‘free trips’. With AIPs, security fees, custom fees coupled with full flight AND regarded by management as devaluing J class, the travel perk as been reduced to a non-perk.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Great point Rooster69. I don't go anywhere anymore. Too expensive, and I suspect the gate agents in Canada aren't following the proper procedure for assigning employee travel seats. So all your planning ends up out the window when you miss your outbound leg. Employee travel is no longer a benefit in my eyes.

[Stu Pidasso]

Not that long ago being a Flight Attendant was never designed to be a career. It was a job for a young, preferably female, attractive ( don't lose you mind, happens to be a fact,) to do for five years. At which point the Airline would hope you would move on, or they also fired F/A's for the slightest of infraction.

The attraction was the Glamour (was real at one time, certainly not anymore,) Travel - and the none stop parties on the overnights.

Along came strong Unions, human rights and 80 year old F/A's.

The poverty starting pay is a hang over from the old days, many still believe that keeping them hungry they'll do it for a short while and leave.

[A310Heavy]

Not that long ago being a Flight Attendant was never designed to be a career. It was a job for a young, preferably female, attractive ( don't lose you mind, happens to be a fact,) to do for five years. At which point the Airline would hope you would move on, or they also fired F/A's for the slightest of infraction.

The attraction was the Glamour (was real at one time, certainly not anymore,) Travel - and the none stop parties on the overnights.

Along came strong Unions, human rights and 80 year old F/A's.

The poverty starting pay is a hang over from the old days, many still believe that keeping them hungry they'll do it for a short while and leave.

Well at least the FAs had those...unlike the pilots

Does explain how the FAs onboard make more than the pilots...