Reasons to come to Air Canada (… or not)

[digits_]

Air Canada doesn't need to sacrifice their contract for a scope clause they already have that running for them. Huge difference from a negotiations point of view

I have no doubt other excuses will be used to explain why it only makes sense they didn't end up with a world class contract *this time*. But of course next time, in 5 years, they'll be set up for real gains!

[daedalusx]

Air Canada doesn't need to sacrifice their contract for a scope clause they already have that running for them. Huge difference from a negotiations point of view

I have no doubt other excuses will be used to explain why it only makes sense they didn't end up with a world class contract *this time*. But of course next time, in 5 years, they'll be set up for real gains!

Well if it's like anything else that happened in the last couple of years, they'll get a 95%+ strike vote. Then at 5 to midnight, they'll have a TA that will be pretty much WJ scale +5-10% and then the excuses and road shows will start with

We had to secure the work [..]fleet growth equate quicker upgrades [..] extra days off and increase vacation, benefits, LTD, pension [..]incredible gains if you compare to 2013 [..] tough competition [..] hard economic reality of Canada [..] look at the signature bonus and back pay [..] flat pay is gone [..] still best paid pilots in Canada [..] we got WAY WAY more than if we stayed with ACPA [....] and we had to secure xyz this time but next contract we'll really go for big money, you'll see.

No one has the balls to take it to a strike which is quite ironic since strike pay is more or less what a huge % of guys on flat pay are getting.

[Canadianpilot2024]

.

[Canpilot7]

Air Canada doesn't need to sacrifice their contract for a scope clause they already have that running for them. Huge difference from a negotiations point of view

I have no doubt other excuses will be used to explain why it only makes sense they didn't end up with a world class contract *this time*. But of course next time, in 5 years, they'll be set up for real gains!

Well if it's like anything else that happened in the last couple of years, they'll get a 95%+ strike vote. Then at 5 to midnight, they'll have a TA that will be pretty much WJ scale +5-10% and then the excuses and road shows will start with

We had to secure the work [..]fleet growth equate quicker upgrades [..] extra days off and increase vacation, benefits, LTD, pension [..]incredible gains if you compare to 2013 [..] tough competition [..] hard economic reality of Canada [..] look at the signature bonus and back pay [..] flat pay is gone [..] still best paid pilots in Canada [..] we got WAY WAY more than if we stayed with ACPA [....] and we had to secure xyz this time but next contract we'll really go for big money, you'll see.

No one has the balls to take it to a strike which is quite ironic since strike pay is more or less what a huge % of guys on flat pay are getting.

Are people still just looking at hourly rates at ignoring the stuff that really matters? All that stuff matters more than a touch more pay.

[daedalusx]

.

[daedalusx]

Are people still just looking at hourly rates at ignoring the stuff that really matters? All that stuff matters more than a touch more pay.

Yeah dude, there I was the other day trying to pay my mortgage in YVR with my B1 flight passes and the bank teller had the audacity to tell me that they only accept legal tender. I kept telling him that it doesn't really matter because now we have a 6% RRSP matching but he wasn't fazed by my 25 year plan finance, then I drove home from the most expensive airport on my 2 hour commute through traffic and stopped for gas, I kept trying to insert my Sunlife benefits card and the pump just wouldn't activate. I ran out of gas, but thankfully my van is now also my home.
So glad I'm flying the flag, what a prestigious job.
Give me a fucking break.

[goingnowherefast]

Are people still just looking at hourly rates at ignoring the stuff that really matters? All that stuff matters more than a touch more pay.

Yeah dude, there I was the other day trying to pay my mortgage in YVR with my B1 flight passes and the bank teller had the audacity to tell me that they only accept legal tender. I kept telling him that it doesn't really matter because now we have a 6% RRSP matching but he wasn't fazed by my 25 year plan finance, then I drove home from the most expensive airport on my 2 hour commute through traffic and stopped for gas, I kept trying to insert my Sunlife benefits card and the pump just wouldn't activate. I ran out of gas, but thankfully my van is now also my home.
So glad I'm flying the flag, what a prestigious job.
Give me a fucking break.

LMAO, well said. But the other stuff is also important to.
Vacation is time with loved ones.
Commuting policy is much the same.
Benefits and pension have a pretty big financial impact too.

I'm not minimizing the importance of pay, it's vitality important. As you stated, can't buy gas with the benefits card. But with crap benefits, who's paying for the kid's dentist appointment? Crap (or no) commuting policy means more time away from home, that's also unpaid.

[Canpilot7]

Are people still just looking at hourly rates at ignoring the stuff that really matters? All that stuff matters more than a touch more pay.

Yeah dude, there I was the other day trying to pay my mortgage in YVR with my B1 flight passes and the bank teller had the audacity to tell me that they only accept legal tender. I kept telling him that it doesn't really matter because now we have a 6% RRSP matching but he wasn't fazed by my 25 year plan finance, then I drove home from the most expensive airport on my 2 hour commute through traffic and stopped for gas, I kept trying to insert my Sunlife benefits card and the pump just wouldn't activate. I ran out of gas, but thankfully my van is now also my home.
So glad I'm flying the flag, what a prestigious job.
Give me a fucking break.

So if you worked 8 days a months with extremely attractive day off flying rates, how would that pay look.

This is why AC pilots end up with T4s that are a fraction of what they should be. You can chase the $ a lot easier if you have exceptional credit protection and scheduling rigs.

Edit: the final line of sarcasm about AC is unintended irony, because AC has always been an hourly wage over everything shop with ACPA. Usually had the highest hourly rate and was happy to give up anything else in the contract. There's a reason ALPA has such a big job right now to do. If people say "just give us pay" they could have a deal pretty quick I'm sure.... It just wouldn't be one anyone should vote yes to! So if you currently don't like the way it feels to fly the flag, that hourly rate attitude has to change to some attention to contract detail!

[CaptDukeNukem]

Are people still just looking at hourly rates at ignoring the stuff that really matters? All that stuff matters more than a touch more pay.

Yeah dude, there I was the other day trying to pay my mortgage in YVR with my B1 flight passes and the bank teller had the audacity to tell me that they only accept legal tender. I kept telling him that it doesn't really matter because now we have a 6% RRSP matching but he wasn't fazed by my 25 year plan finance, then I drove home from the most expensive airport on my 2 hour commute through traffic and stopped for gas, I kept trying to insert my Sunlife benefits card and the pump just wouldn't activate. I ran out of gas, but thankfully my van is now also my home.
So glad I'm flying the flag, what a prestigious job.
Give me a fucking break.

lol. I applaud you sir. Great post.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Imagine trying to astroturf a generation that grew up on the internet.

[kevin552000]

Hello everyone,

As someone who has started working at Air Canada post Covid, I thought it would be beneficial for future aspiring Air Canada pilots to have a clear picture of what to expect vs what you think you'd expect working for a legacy carrier, or the self proclaimed “NHL of Canadian Airlines”

Pro’s:

- Pension

Talking about the pension, how does it look like at AC? I heard that everyone hired before 2009 or so got a great DB pension, what about anyone hired these days? Is that a simple RRSP match?

[Exactive22]

Hello everyone,

As someone who has started working at Air Canada post Covid, I thought it would be beneficial for future aspiring Air Canada pilots to have a clear picture of what to expect vs what you think you'd expect working for a legacy carrier, or the self proclaimed “NHL of Canadian Airlines”

Pro’s:

- Pension

Talking about the pension, how does it look like at AC? I heard that everyone hired before 2009 or so got a great DB pension, what about anyone hired these days? Is that a simple RRSP match?

The 'new' pension is just a little more than a simple RRSP match in the sense that there is :
1. No maximum contribution as you have for RRSP (Really only matters once you are a highly paid captain)
2. It's paid out for life (If you stay in this job for a whole career you will die early anyways due cancer, fatigue and being abused by this company's rules)

The big negatives are that you pay a big chunk of your
already too little monthly paycheck (6-10%) into this and will only see it after retirement. Lots of losses if you want to retire early. I personally would rather have the money in my account and invest it myself so I can retire in my 50s. I would rather not rely on some preset pension that comes with constraints and basically locks up my money. At least give me the option to opt out WestJet style and get the match in my account.

Just my two cents, cheers.

[kevin552000]

The 'new' pension is just a little more than a simple RRSP match in the sense that there is :
1. No maximum contribution as you have for RRSP (Really only matters once you are a highly paid captain)
2. It's paid out for life (If you stay in this job for a whole career you will die early anyways due cancer, fatigue and being abused by this company's rules)

The big negatives are that you pay a big chunk of your
already too little monthly paycheck (6-10%) into this and will only see it after retirement. Lots of losses if you want to retire early. I personally would rather have the money in my account and invest it myself so I can retire in my 50s. I would rather not rely on some preset pension that comes with constraints and basically locks up my money. At least give me the option to opt out WestJet style and get the match in my account.

Just my two cents, cheers.

Oh so it's still a Defined Benefit pension plan then if it's paid out for life. Not bad.
Thx for the answer.

[flying4dollars]

The 'new' pension is just a little more than a simple RRSP match in the sense that there is :
1. No maximum contribution as you have for RRSP (Really only matters once you are a highly paid captain)
2. It's paid out for life (If you stay in this job for a whole career you will die early anyways due cancer, fatigue and being abused by this company's rules)

The big negatives are that you pay a big chunk of your
already too little monthly paycheck (6-10%) into this and will only see it after retirement. Lots of losses if you want to retire early. I personally would rather have the money in my account and invest it myself so I can retire in my 50s. I would rather not rely on some preset pension that comes with constraints and basically locks up my money. At least give me the option to opt out WestJet style and get the match in my account.

Just my two cents, cheers.

Oh so it's still a Defined Benefit pension plan then if it's paid out for life. Not bad.
Thx for the answer.

No, defined contribution plan

[altiplano]

The contributions are defined, but it's not a DC plan, it's a Target Benefit Plan.

[Protonpilot]

The contributions are defined, but it's not a DC plan, it's a Target Benefit Plan.

Correct.

If you go on the CWIPP website, there's more info. It's described as a 'defined benefit pension plan that operates under target funding rules'.

This allows it to operate under fixed contributions from the employer and employee.

The new plan for WestJet pilots is similar, a DB plan but with fixed contributions. These kinds of plans carry a big funding safety margin to ride out poor investment years.

With both of these plans, If investments go south, the employer doesn't have to pony up more money. Instead, other measures will be taken. Inflation adjustments paused, future accrual rates lowered, etc...

[thepoors]

No one has the balls to take it to a strike which is quite ironic since strike pay is more or less what a huge % of guys on flat pay are getting.

Really hoping this is the difference maker come September. On ALPA strike pay, year 1 FOs are making more than on regular salary. There is literally nothing to lose in a strike for a huge number of people at this company. For once, can we f***ing man up and fight for what we deserve.

WJ and WJE have both proved they are a bunch of cucks. I hope lessons are being learned and we don't repeat the same weakhanded, defeatist bullshit. The company is not shy about playing this game dirty. We have to be stronger than that.

[GodlvlPilot]

No one has the balls to take it to a strike which is quite ironic since strike pay is more or less what a huge % of guys on flat pay are getting.

Really hoping this is the difference maker come September. On ALPA strike pay, year 1 FOs are making more than on regular salary. There is literally nothing to lose in a strike for a huge number of people at this company. For once, can we f***ing man up and fight for what we deserve.

WJ and WJE have both proved they are a bunch of cucks. I hope lessons are being learned and we don't repeat the same weakhanded, defeatist bullshit. The company is not shy about playing this game dirty. We have to be stronger than that.

Nothing says unifying a pilot group like calling other pilots cucks. The same group of people bashing other pilots group want their peers support.

Can't wait to see the deal of the century.

Or the excuses you guys make when you accept a subpar deal to continue to "fly the flag".

[itsgrosswhatinet]

17 posts, all negative and anti-pilot.

[thepoors]

No one has the balls to take it to a strike which is quite ironic since strike pay is more or less what a huge % of guys on flat pay are getting.

Really hoping this is the difference maker come September. On ALPA strike pay, year 1 FOs are making more than on regular salary. There is literally nothing to lose in a strike for a huge number of people at this company. For once, can we f***ing man up and fight for what we deserve.

WJ and WJE have both proved they are a bunch of cucks. I hope lessons are being learned and we don't repeat the same weakhanded, defeatist bullshit. The company is not shy about playing this game dirty. We have to be stronger than that.

Nothing says unifying a pilot group like calling other pilots cucks. The same group of people bashing other pilots group want their peers support.

Can't wait to see the deal of the century.

Or the excuses you guys make when you accept a subpar deal to continue to "fly the flag".

WJ pilot groups both had excellent opportunities to bring real change to compensation in this country. But instead they chose to continue the pattern of devaluing the profession. In many ways that's far worse than any "bashing."

What exactly would you call their actions? The fact that you think 79% voting yes to that embarrassment is acceptable says it all. What has WJ ALPA done to unify anyone? They continue to screw each other over within the same company. MEC bowing down to management threats and the pilot group accepting another substandard pos contract.

[AirCandida]

I like how AC pilots think they're innocent and are victims. Keep up the good work guys, Flair and Porter will continue to set the bar!

[itsgrosswhatinet]

23 posts. All anti-AC pilot.

[daedalusx]

I still haven't heard a single reason why WJ ALPA didn't push for a METOO clause last year like they do in the States ...

[AirCandida]

23 posts. All anti-AC pilot.

Why do you think that maybe?

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Indeed. Why is the question.