YYZ RJ landing Accident

[Daniel Cooper]

All news is wrong. You just notice when it's something you're an expert on.

[Rooster69]

All news is wrong. You just notice when it's something you're an expert on.

Too true.

When it comes to aviation reporting, most reporters are clueless and will parrot anything and everything.

https://youtu.be/-pJxn28Z9mc

[digits_]

[rookiepilot]

All news is wrong. You just notice when it's something you're an expert on.

Too true.

When it comes to aviation reporting, most reporters are clueless and will parrot anything and everything.

https://youtu.be/-pJxn28Z9mc

Never mind they are psychopaths that are disappointed everyone didn’t die. Better ratings.

[ant_321]

Some idiot pilot got himself on TV and is claiming winds were gusting 70 knots. Obviously listened to Canadian media reports on the accident and doesn’t know the difference between knots and KM/HR.

Seriously, any media reading this, do not report anything until you check basic facts. Just shut up and let actual experts do their work.

Stuff like this is why no one trusts the media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIFrH9mA0YY

What a clown. Imagine not taking the time to check the wx in YYZ before getting on the news to be an “expert” and then rambling on about other nonsense for 5 mins

[rigpiggy]

Anyone got the vid of the landing

[rudder]

Anyone got the vid of the landing

https://www.tmz.com/

[karmutzen]

Handling pilot’s got some ‘splaining to do. Nothing in the other pilot’s voice on the radio to ATC hints at any issue at that time.

[marlin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comme ... 7th_crash/

[Oscar]

I've got a buddy who's an Endeavor FO. He looked up the crew. There was 1 male and 1 female pilot. The Captain was male and was the one on the radio. Grateful they are alive. That's all I know.

[Dias]

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comme ... 7th_crash/

Wow, I thought they must have clipped a wing tip fighting the crosswind but nope. They just straight didn't flare.

[CaptDukeNukem]

You guys are ruthless. Let the investigation do its part. Blaming it on the crew immediately is not the way we should be acting. There are always 100 factors that come into play. Be better.

There was gusty wind conditions. Who’s to say they didn’t get negative performance windshear.
There was snowy runway in drifting snow conditions.
There was an airplane past the CAT1 line that might have interfered with the G/S and this was passed on to the pilots from the controller.

Check your ego at the door. It could have been you.

[Inverted2]

It wasn’t that bad in YYZ today. I’ve had much worse winds. Looks like they didn’t flare, touched down hard on the right main, collapsed it. Wing took the impact and departed then it rolled over. Go to Newark if you want to see real crosswinds.

[pelmet]

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comme ... 7th_crash/

Wow, I thought they must have clipped a wing tip fighting the crosswind but nope. They just straight didn't flare.

Maybe we can finally end the stupidest saying in aviation…….”Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing”.

[Sulako]

I'm gonna say this once. Sexist or racist content will be removed and the poster will be dealt with accordingly.

I'm pretty sick of the presumption and negativity and I can hear the dogwhistles too. I've already given out vacations (plural) and I'd really rather not do that, it's not a particularly nice way to start the day.

We can all learn from this once the report comes out. Let the professionals do their jobs; they have access to information you don't.

As a sidenote, Diversity, equity and inclusion policies were never created to let unqualified brown people or women get jobs ahead of qualified white men. Did you know? It's meant to ensure that a qualified brown person and/or woman won't be passed over in order to hire an unqualfied white man. True story, feel free to look it up.

Most people understand that at a fundemental level and don't have an issue with the idea. However, to the small yet vocal minority who don't get it, please ask yourself which parts you are against. Is it the diversity part you have an issue with? Or perhaps the equity part? Or maybe the inclusion part? Then ask yourself why that is. No need to post the answer on this particular topic, it's meant for the accident.

Okay, back to the accident itself...

[CL-Skadoo!]

Here is very clear video from an aircraft holding short…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinter ... gWcL04fYbj

[Justjohn]

QUOTE

I'm gonna say this once. Sexist or racist content will be removed and the poster will be dealt with accordingly.

I'm pretty sick of the presumption and negativity and I can hear the dogwhistles too. I've already given out vacations (plural) and I'd really rather not do that, it's not a particularly nice way to start the day.

We can all learn from this once the report comes out. Let the professionals do their jobs; they have access to information you don't.

As a sidenote, Diversity, equity and inclusion policies were never created to let unqualified brown people or women get jobs ahead of qualified white men. Did you know? It's meant to ensure that a qualified brown person and/or woman won't be passed over in order to hire an unqualfied white man. True story, feel free to look it up.

Most people understand that at a fundemental level and don't have an issue with the idea. However, to the small yet vocal minority who don't get it, please ask yourself which parts you are against. Is it the diversity part you have an issue with? Or perhaps the equity part? Or maybe the inclusion part? Then ask yourself why that is. No need to post the answer on this particular topic, it's meant for the accident.

Okay, back to the accident itself..


End Quote




I believe in the intent of DEI policies as they are expressed above.

HOWEVER,

As someone who’s been in the industry for many decades and seeing those same policies put in practice..

The underlying tone of the above quote verges on gaslighting lived experience.

This is in no way a defence of racist or sexist comments, they are abhorrent and should properly be condemned.


If this gets me banned so be it.

[rudder]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. So a video must be the equivalent of a novel

Combined with DFDR/CVR information and flight crew interviews, an accurate assessment of cause should be forthcoming.

Of particular interest should be flight control inputs (or lack thereof). Would also like to hear what the estimated g loading was at touchdown.

CRJ900’s are predisposed to hard landings (sometimes resulting in structural damage but not gear collapse) when the approach-flare-touchdown transition is not managed properly, including thrust management (no auto-throttle).

[digits_]

Reddit AMA from a passenger:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1 ... n_toronto/

[TCAS II]

Looks like they hit hard on the right main and it collapsed.

Terrifying ordeal, it’s a miracle there were no fatalities.

It will be interesting to see what the flight data shows.

[nobody23]

You guys are ruthless. Let the investigation do its part. Blaming it on the crew immediately is not the way we should be acting. There are always 100 factors that come into play. Be better.

There was gusty wind conditions. Who’s to say they didn’t get negative performance windshear.
Did you see the video? airplane descent rate doesn't change. It would've dropped with negative wind shear
There was snowy runway in drifting snow conditions.
Correct, and if it was a factor, it's pilot error. Like saying "There was a thunderstorm they flew into, not their fault"
There was an airplane past the CAT1 line that might have interfered with the G/S and this was passed on to the pilots from the controller.
They were well beyond the transition to visual.

Check your ego at the door. It could have been you.
Correct. However it doesn't take rocket science to figure out from the videos around that it's most likely going to be pilot error.

It's not offensive to point out what makes the most sense, and we don't need 2 years of experts to figure it out. We're all smart enough to understand what went wrong here. No ego associated.

[mel gibson]

This is terrible to watch.

I have 1200 hours on the CRJ, mostly on the CRJ 100/200. The remainder on the CRJ 900 (705). Many years ago mind you.

First ,The CRJ 100/200 lands fairly shallow and the CRJ 900 lands quite a bit nose higher, where a flare is definitely required.
I cannot believe that these aircraft are a common type rating. I checked the Endeavour website and they have CRJ 700 and CRJ 900 aircraft.
The CRJ 700 may have slightly different handling qualities in the flare.

Second, crosswind technique can definitely be forgotten. Needs to be practiced and focused on often, including me. This aircraft seemed to run out of energy, and as Rudder points out, there is no auto throttle, it is pure hands and feet at low altitude. ( The joke is to say that someone has the hands and feet of a snake)

Third, regional carriers have many new pilots conducting numerous take offs and landings. These aircraft must be getting many hard landings .This could ultimately lead to gear failures. This just happened on a PAL Dash8-400. Not blaming anyone, but experience levels have really fallen.

Fourth, ultimately , the Captain will be blamed , even if they were not flying. Stay vigilant, things happen so quickly.

Five, painful to watch aviation "experts" on TV. "flying is safer than driving......."

[rudder]

Looks like they hit hard on the right main and it collapsed.

Terrifying ordeal, it’s a miracle there were no fatalities.

It will be interesting to see what the flight data shows.

Here is an article related to a 2.8g CRJ900 touchdown. In that event, the gear stayed upright but appears was structurally damaged by the event requiring replacement. Would suggest that the YYZ incident may be related to a greater g load than 2.8 leading to right gear collapse, or it may be discovered on investigation that there was prior unnoticed damage to the right gear strut and that contributed to collapse.

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/jaz ... 59.article

[Deadcat]

I was going to comment on a previous post and I see that a few of them are gone now. So how to comment on CRM and crew selection pairing without offending someone? A wealth of experience and knowledge at tap within this group, should we just talk about weather as the only allowable cause, the same as we did in Nigeria on every crash (musta hit a downdraft, those devil vortex).

I don’t dispute the need for mods to keep the conversation civil, but the “offensive” threshold bar seems set pretty low.

[pilotidentity]

All good points Mel, thanks for the info.