Flying vs. ATC

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GilletteNorth
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by GilletteNorth »

Well maybe I'm wrong, but it don't matter since it isn't going to change anyway, nuff said.
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Having a standard that pilots lose their licence after making a mistake despite doing no harm to aircraft or passengers means soon you needn't worry about a pilot surplus or pilots offering to fly for free. Where do you get your experience from?
priceless
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by priceless »

any chance we can get back on the original topic? really curious about the shift over to ATC. I understand there is not a very high success rate but can anyone give the run down from beginning to end and all the perks, pay, benefits, reasons why people do it? anyone leave the airlines?
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Adam1100
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by Adam1100 »

my girlfriend is a FSS I met her on the course, I had my private licence she didnt, I failed she is all checked out and about to be retrained as a controller. I have decided after i failed that it wasnt what i wanted anyways I want to be in the plane, if i had passed im sure i would have done it though, it is a cool job. i go in the tower with her when she is working sometimes, it takes a different skill set then flying does, and it didnt match mine. much more stable job, stressful challenging, flying is more exciting and you get to travel.
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GilletteNorth
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by GilletteNorth »

can anyone give the run down from beginning to end and all the perks, pay, benefits, reasons why people do it? anyone leave the airlines?
Takes all of 15 seconds to Google 'NavCanada', find the homepage, see the Career Opportunities box, click the 'read more' link, see the ATC/FSS choices, click on ATC or FSS and find a 'work environment, pay and benefits link. I'll leave that to you. Reasons why? Most basic answer, it pays more than McDonalds. I expect you'd have your own reason to join. Anyone leave the airlines? Probably, you'd be surprised at how many employees have or had a commercial pilot license.
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SkyWolfe
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by SkyWolfe »

I'm not sure why some people seem to think negatively about people who started as pilots and want now to move to ATC.

Personally, I never really thought of it until I started training. My visit to the IFR center sold me on it, however, I was already enrolled in a program. I think quitting my other program half way through would have been a bit silly.

I have talked to several people and gotten several different answers.

What I am coming to understand is that the checkout is very complicated for IFR... Many people have suggested I take my chance with a tower and then move to the ACC, so at least there is something to fall back on. I guess what I am asking is; is there anyway to tell if you would be suited to pass your checkout in the end? Or is this just something that you don't know until your knee deep in it?

Cheers,
Wolfie
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NJ
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by NJ »

There isn't a magic formula for what makes an ATC. The tower first thing is mostly because it used to be room and board paid for and not much time without a salary. Now with VFR training going regionalized, there isn't much of an advantage, and you're likely to be relocated to another city after completing the course.

If you go VFR first and want to try IFR later, you will do the IFR training as a qualified controller with your current salary. If you don't make it or choose not to continue, you can return to your tower.
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priceless
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by priceless »

Gillettenorth Im aware of the Navcan website and have gone through it. As we all know in this industry we need to do more research when wanting info thats we have this forum to talk to people who are actually in the know. The website is limited on info hence the reason Im posting my questions here.
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scrambled_legs
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by scrambled_legs »

Priceless I think you'll find everyone will give you the same opinion. It's a different lifestyle, choose the lifestyle you want. Flying is a big gamble even after you make it to the big leagues but can really pay off. ATC is a big gamble while you're in training, then pays off immediately and has security without worrying about the rollercoaster in pilot demand or business bankruptcy that seems to affect everyone at least once.

The pays good, you can make 6 figures immediately if you're IFR and you can make 6 figures in many towers after putting in a few years with some O/T. After topping out on the pay scale in 10 years with your ATC premium even the lowest grade towers will make close to 6 figures. I don't have the contract in front of me, but over the long run, you'll be way ahead in ATC vs. putting 10 years of volunteer flying in to get to a 6 figure flying job. Some guys transition to ATC from the airlines for more stability in their life. That's the big difference and if its really important to you, get out of flying now. I know of one person flying a 757 that had to take a job in Africa after getting laid off, with a new born that didn't know him. I wasn't in the airlines, but I chose to leave that life before getting there, in order to have a life outside of aviation. I have a house, money, medical, dental and enough time off to do almost whatever I want. If I was still flying, I'd still be renting in a shared house with no paid holidays, yellow teeth and no free viagra for when I get older.

The downfall is you end up stuck on shift work for the rest of your life. You may have to work nights, you won't get most weekends or holidays off, and no sane person would volunteer to do this job for free. It can get frustrating dealing with the company BS and the relationship between employees and the company is not good. You're nothing more than a cost of doing business to them. That being said, most controllers are of the opinion that the company sucks but the job is great.
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GilletteNorth
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by GilletteNorth »

It was a bit of a snarky reply by me, I meant it to be. The way you phrase your request
I understand there is not a very high success rate
you sound like you have no intention of applying unless someone can convince you you're going to get the golden goose.
can anyone give the run down from beginning to end and all the perks, pay, benefits, reasons why people do it
The info on NavCanada's website may not include all the pay details, increment levels, overtime pay, or any real portion of our contract, but it is enough to assure that you aren't applying to McDonalds. If you are interested in the job, that part is covered pretty well. Requesting a run down 'from beginning to end' is asking a lot since covering everything in detail would take quite a bit of work by anyone trying to do so for someone who may never even apply. Relative to doing the job, there have been tons of related posts in the ATS Question Forum, if you read a few of them you can get a pretty good idea what to expect. I wanted this job as soon as I read about it in a small ad in the paper. It didn't give a hell of a lot of info about being a FSS or ATC, or the benefits, or the lifestyle but I could figure out that I was going to start at the bottom of the payscale and that there'd be a lot of things I'd learn as I went along. But the big draw for me was working in the aviation field and being at an airport every day. So I guess what I'm saying to you is sometimes you just gotta go for it. I appreciate you might want to check that all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed but if the only reason you want to apply is to make money, go into business for yourself. I'd rather work beside someone with a passion for airplanes than beside a guy watching for his next paycheck.
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scrambled_legs
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by scrambled_legs »

Wow... a little touchy Gillette? Cut yourself with the razor this morning? It's just a job and I have no problems with someone who wants to find out the real truth from the employees rather than a company dream advertisement on a website. Can you fault him for being leary for forking out big bucks in order to train for a job that he may not like and has a 70% chance of not making it, even if he does like it after 2 years of training? It's not like you're applying for a job and getting paid to take a month long training course before getting to seat in the seat by yourself and see what it's really like. Not all of us are wise enough to tell that we want a job by reading an ad in the classifieds. Just go for it is about the best advice you can give your worst enemy. I don't know of one employee in my unit that is more passionate about aircraft then their paycheque. Just going for it can result in a large loss of savings for no reason, or a job that you're really not happy with.

Like everyone has said, the job's pay and benefits are good, no matter what level you're at. You have to decide whether you want the job and the lifestyle that goes with it or the pilot job and lifestyle. Take a trip to a few IFR/VFR units and sit down and watch them work for a day or 2. It'll cost you less then 24hrs of your life and possibly save 2 years and big money.
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GilletteNorth
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by GilletteNorth »

A little touchy? I'm on a freakin diet and I am miserable... :cry: :evil: :? :x :rolleyes: move on :arrow:
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priceless
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by priceless »

Thanks fellas, all good info and advice and definately something to consider. always good to hear from people inside doing the job and their opinions.
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vince79
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by vince79 »

scrambled_legs: You say that we should visit a few IFV/VFR unit. Should we contact them before ? How does it work and who should contact ?

Thanks !
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Newwave
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by Newwave »

Shift manager would be your best bet!
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scrambled_legs
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by scrambled_legs »

vince79, I'm not sure where the general public gets the numbers from but walk into your local flight training school and ask them or check the yellow pages for the Airport Authority in your area and they should be able to provide you with a contact number. ie. If you live in Edmonton, look up Edmonton Airport Authority and they should be able to steer you in the right direction. The IFR centers and VFR tower locations should probably be shown on Navcanada.ca somewhere. Find the ones closest to you and go take a look. If you're quiet and respectful, you can often sit for hours in the back and get a good feel for the work. Just make sure you're going to an airport with controllers not FSS, if that's what you're interested in.
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grimey
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Re: Flying vs. ATC

Post by grimey »

scrambled_legs wrote:vince79, I'm not sure where the general public gets the numbers from but walk into your local flight training school and ask them or check the yellow pages for the Airport Authority in your area and they should be able to provide you with a contact number.
For flight service stations at least, the number is usually in the white pages for the city/town under Nav Canada - Site Manager, Airport Operations. It seems to be the same setup with control towers or centres (just Manager, ABC Control Tower/Area Control Center).
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