RNP "Short Gate"

[twinpratts]

Until it gets offered without asking, I'm going to request it.

[Jastapilot]

YHZ was offering to me a bunch of times before I even had the chance to ask... was very nice.

[balfour]

Until it gets offered without asking, I'm going to request it.

+1

[Wburns]

I wasn't sure what this RNP was exactly till I was downwind in YWG all the way to Fargo While WestJet came in on their fancy RNP!
What gives! 45 on the nose I was on final for 7 minutes! My last 6 minutes of the day from YAV to YWG turned into 16...thanks.

sorry for the banter.

[Flightlevels]

first come first serve...you probably would have waited longer if we did our own visual or Standard IFR approach. RNP saves time and gas.

[Intentional Left Bank]

first come first serve...you probably would have waited longer if we did our own visual or Standard IFR approach. RNP saves time and gas.

...and with both the FAA and Nav Canada NextGen Equipage Policy embracing a "BEST EQUIPPED, BEST SERVED" priority policy rather than the traditional "FIRST COME FIRST SERVE", there's going to be a lot more squawking from the not-so-well equipped.

[Jastapilot]

I'm sorry, but was there a 'for those who pay their bills' category?

[Flightlevels]

Might as well get used to the rnp stuff boys cause the EMB's at ac are getting it next. They were out to yyc having a look at it a few weeks back.

[CCR]

EMB's are getting the RNP? That's awesome!! Savings for AC, good for the environment, gives ATC more tools to move A/C, and from what I understand, WJA makes a bit of $$$ off the usage of the approaches from other companies!! Win x 4 !!

[stickontheice]

"...gives ATC more tools to move A/C"

Does that mean we can halt construction of the new runway in YC? What a mess that's going to be.

[55+]

WJ approved to .1RNP or still at .3RNP

[Tiny Voices]

Approved for RNP 0.1.

[whiteguy]

"...gives ATC more tools to move A/C"

Does that mean we can halt construction of the new runway in YC? What a mess that's going to be.

I don't think the construction of a new runway is going to affect the operation into YYC much, it'll only make things better once its done!

[cyeg66]

"...gives ATC more tools to move A/C"

Does that mean we can halt construction of the new runway in YC? What a mess that's going to be.

Sure, it gives ATC more tools to move a/c but it doesn't allow for more airplane movements.... They're already being moved as close together as the arrival system allows (in YYC, anyways). IMO, the RNPs are nice 'cause they're a predictable path to final, unlike my vectors which sometimes result in drastic speed adjustments . I'm kinda hoping the Embraers utilize WJ's RNP tracks in YYC (at a cost, of course) instead of developing their own because sequencing using CRDA is already hard enough. If they go with their own, different ones, the end result may be that some controllers will simply choose not to issue those approaches for the sake of simplicity.

[cyeg66]

WJ approved to .1RNP or still at .3RNP

"huh?" and "wha?"

[KAG]

.3 or .1 just refers to increased sensitivity and in some case a .1 = lower mins. Think of it as an RNP value of .3 as a LOC only approach, and a .1 as an ILS (for mins as both give lateral and vertical guidance).

[cyeg66]

.3 or .1 just refers to increased sensitivity and in some case a .1 = lower mins. Think of it as an RNP value of .3 as a LOC only approach, and a .1 as an ILS (for mins as both give lateral and vertical guidance).

Sorta figured that but thanks for the clarification anyways.

[fundi]

about new runway in YYC- what a joke! Its only the odd time I've waited 15 mins for a runway in CYYC. Normally it looks like (from the pilots seat) the time wasted could be reduded by efficiencies gained in ATC procedures. CYYC seems to have some manpower issues, and the new runway will not fix that.

Regarding the future of NAV and RNP-
http://eponline.com/articles/2010/04/26 ... n-ceo.aspx

quote "The International Civil Aviation Organization has predicted that efficiencies made possible by just RNP can cut global CO2 emission by 13 million metric tons per year"

"And in Canada, we designed and currently maintain a network of RNP arrival procedures for WestJet that is saving fuel, cutting emissions, reducing track miles and time enroute. Here in the United States, we are helping Southwest Airlines equip its fleet, train its pilots and make operational changes that will enable them to fly RNP paths," Bolsinger explained

[cyeg66]

about new runway in YYC- what a joke! Its only the odd time I've waited 15 mins for a runway in CYYC. Normally it looks like (from the pilots seat) the time wasted could be reduded by efficiencies gained in ATC procedures. CYYC seems to have some manpower issues, and the new runway will not fix that.

Glad to see someone views YYC thru rose colored glasses. As for the new runway "not fixing" manpower issues, I must disagree with you. I believe it will simplify training for both the terminal and the tower. The arrival system we use now is relatively complex, mostly inflexible, and can go to shite when weather blows in, which can result in both units just struggling to cope with the elements, and it consequently slows things down. Now, if one were to 'uncross' those two big bits of pavement and place them in a parallel config., "Ahhhhhh....". So much nicer, simpler, go back to sleeping while the trainee learns the job by jumping both feet in. Better qualification rate = more bodies, fewer delays due to staff shortages = happier bean counters, and just as importantly, pilots, at the majors.

[fundi]

"Now, if one were to 'uncross' those two big bits of pavement and place them in a parallel config"...

seriously! So when the wind blows 25kts outta the NW and its "only RW28"....how is that fancy 200 million drag strip gonna help. Last week, we requested RW34 as the crosswind was acceptable, but ATC turned us down. wtf?

Why can US atc have more movements on cross runways? See LGA, SFO, Midway, etc. Even YVR uses RW12 well to allieviate the congestion on the 08's! I believe we have an ATC procedural/ job protectionism/ staff shortage issues in YYC.

But thats just my 2cents worth...thats right, it ain't worth much!!

[cyeg66]

<sigh> I grow fatigued. What else is there to say? You've truly got the whole picture. You summed it up perfectly. Perhaps you should assume the roles of YYC twr manager and CEO Calgary Airport Authority because the incumbents running the show clearly have no idea what they're doing. Let me get straight to my point. With comments like these, you appear to be trolling.

[Ryan Coke2]

It's unfortunate when some people have so little humility and believe they know how to do a bunch of peoples jobs better than those that actually do the job everyday. It gives us pilots a bad name, although those personalities exist in all professions.

Probably the same type who would be outraged when someone who knows nothing about flying airplanes dare second guess his decision making.

Fundi is probably much wiser and more balanced than he came across in that post though, but it is just easier to point out how great things are in the US compared to here, even though there are a bunch of differences. I will say that EWR and PHL, as examples, can be gong shows to operate out of. If those are examples of how things could be done, then no thanks.

[whiteguy]

It's unfortunate when some people have so little humility and believe they know how to do a bunch of peoples jobs better than those that actually do the job everyday. It gives us pilots a bad name, although those personalities exist in all professions.

Probably the same type who would be outraged when someone who knows nothing about flying airplanes dare second guess his decision making.

Fundi is probably much wiser and more balanced than he came across in that post though, but it is just easier to point out how great things are in the US compared to here, even though there are a bunch of differences. I will say that EWR and PHL, as examples, can be gong shows to operate out of. If those are examples of how things could be done, then no thanks.

I agree, everyone thinks they can do every else's job better. I for one think the guys in YYC & YEG are great and do their best to move us around. Doesn't bother me to spin once at EPLUR and get another .2 in the log book.

[Flying Nutcracker]

Isn't it funny... when YYC is swinging arrivals and departures left right and centre, like clockwork, you never hear a peep from this community about a "job well done!"... You hold one pilot up because of a "big picture" situation and it's a disaster.

Realestate is at a premium sometimes... 20 nm final 28 at 160KIAS and a 50 knot headwind. Elements can throw a curveball into the efficient machine an airport is in a perfect world! I admire ATC in YYC sometimes when they do the Intersecting Runway ops with everything perfectly spaced. Good job!!!

Shortgate RNP is a bonus when it works.

One Q about the new runway... how are the taxi times for departure off of the new 34 going to be. The same as the old one, or is the new runway going to be offset to the north compared to the old???

[whiteguy]

One Q about the new runway... how are the taxi times for departure off of the new 34 going to be. The same as the old one, or is the new runway going to be offset to the north compared to the old???

From the terminal it'll be a lot quicker. Landing on 28 you'll fly right over or little south of the threshold for 34R. The new runway is offset to the north of what will be 34L/16R. Taxiways will be crossing just north of the AC hanger, lined up with route 1A.