Man stands throughout 7-hour flight

[2.5milefinal]

I have heard some 'higher ups' at the big airlines have started to talk about selling tickets by the lb.
It might be time for that.
In, lets say an aborted takeoff, would the seat hold up, with 300+ lbs on it ...what happens to the person in front of that
'large' person ??
Can the person fit thru the overwing exit ?
The airlines always say "its all about air safety" but they always seem to ignore this safety issue.

[Canuck223]

Interesting issue. My wife and I had a flight last winter to the Carribeans and one of the passager was grossly overweight in the 737-600. He occupied an aisle seat and required a seat belt extension. The passenger in the middle seat was in the same situation as the above fellow. After take off, this large individual ended up standing in the aisle for the majority of the flight. Unfortunatly my wife had the aisle seat opposite to him and had a rear end by her face for 5 hours. I was going to make an issue but we decided not to push the issue and spoil the beginning of our holidays. It bring out a sensitive issue however, if you are that big, should you be required to advised the carrier and-or have the courtesy of buying a second seat??? what`s the policy with carriers??

Sorry

You could well have been the guy on the aisle seat on the return flight we took from Havana to Montreal a few years back.

If we'd had the option to book 3 seats in a row without the threat of having one yanked on an overbooked flight, I'd have been happy to pay. At the time when my wife was booking the flight with AC, we could not get such a guarantee.

These days I fit the width of the seats far better, but I'm still pushing the limits for head and leg room.

[CD]

Interesting discussion... In the U.S., air carriers are limited in what they can do by the regulatory provisions of 14 CFR 382 - Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in Air Travel.

In Canada, no equivalent regulations exist. Rather, the Canadian Transportation Agency is responsible for ensuring that there are no undue barriers to accessible transportation. They have published a number of voluntary Codes of Practice that they encourage air operators to adopt. However, if an individual submits a complaint regarding a specific air operator, the Agency will investigate to determine if there were any undue barriers and, if so, order the air operator to accommodate the individual.

Of course, the final decision isn’t always the Agency’s. With respect to the McKay-Panos case, the Agency made a finding that was later appealed to the Federal Court and apparently overturned. A further appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada was rejected when the Court refused to hear the appeal, which resulted in the existing “one person, one fare” policy applicable to Air Canada, Jazz and WestJet:

Federal Court of Appeal Docket A-100-03: LINDA MCKAY-PANOS (Appellant) and AIR CANADA and THE CANADIAN TRANSPORTATION AGENCY (Respondents) and COUNCIL OF CANADIANS WITH DISABILITIES (Intervener) – January 2006
Toronto Star: Ruling upheld on disabled travel – November 2008

In another interesting case that is still before the courts, an individual who is both deaf and blind is seeking the right to travel without an attendant. Air Canada originally denied the person that ability, citing safety concerns as the reason for requiring the person to travel with an attendant. The Agency agreed with the position of Air Canada. However, the person then submitted a complaint to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, which essentially found that the complainants’ rights had not been respected and ordered Air Canada to accommodate the person. This was appealed to the Federal Court and I believe has now gone to the Federal Court of Appeal:

Canadian Human Rights Tribunal to “Re-Hear” CTA Complaint – November 2007
Carriage of Passengers with Severe Impairments – January 2009
Jurisdiction of Canadian Transportation Agency Affirmed – November 2010
Federal Court Docket T-239-09: Canadian Transportation Agency (Applicant) and Eddy Morten, Air Canada and Canadian Human Rights Commission (Respondents)
Court Number A-412-10: Canadian Human Rights Commission v. Air Canada – Appeal (S.27 – Final) – Application for Judicial Review

In 2008, the EASA published an interesting report that includes assessment of risk associated with transporting special needs passengers, including the risks associated with “extremely overweight passengers”. The report contains some good information when considering the risk to safety of both the special needs passenger and the other passengers on board:

EASA.2008.C.25 – Carriage by Air of Special Categories of Passengers

[fish4life]

If someone is overweight due to some sort of medical condition that they are not responsible for then they should be treated as a disabled person and not discriminated against and provided 2 seats if needed for the price of one. Although for the majority of obese people they did the to themselves by not taking care of themselves / not eating healthy / not exercising as such they are not disabled and should not be treated as such they are just lazy and should be forced to pay for 2 seats themselves.

[North Shore]

If someone is overweight due to some sort of medical condition

I could never figure this one out?

Eat X calories, burn off Y calories. If X-Y is = then all's good; if it's positive, then it's time to start walking/swimming/wheeling etc...

[Doc]

I have a close friend who travels all the time. He is 6'4" and 440 lbs.

So, you plus him = two normal folks!! LOL!
Take care budd!

[frosti]

The Japanese government’s waistline limits are 33.5 inches for men and 35.4 inches for women. Good luck with that.

Obviously our standards would be a little higher.

If someone is overweight due to some sort of medical condition

Such as?

[Doc]

If someone is overweight due to some sort of medical condition

Such as?

Thyroid condition springs to mind. Severe asthma resulting in immobility is another. I'm sure there are MANY! Not everyone that is overweight is at fault here. You have google? Try it.

[Doc]

Special needs my ass. If this fat carcass can't fit in an airline sized seat with both armrests down, he/she should NOT be on that aircraft. I've had about enough with society these days catering to the overweight and obese. If during an emergency you are clogging up that aisle or window exit, I WILL beat your ass out of the way. Enough is enough - obesity is NOT okay or an excuse and you ARE a wasteful and useless member of society.

How's the sensitivity training going there? This may come as a shock to your, but not everybody is obese because of Big Macs. Some actually can't help it. Just as you can't help being a super model, and God's gift to all mankind.

[Prairie Chicken]

Calm Air, that was a lot of reading material. I didn't read it all by any means but thought the Executive Summary Conclusion of the EASA report was pretty telling.

Conclusion
The study revealed that nearly all considered SCPs increase the risk of air travel to a
greater or lesser extent.

The study demonstrated that various measures could reduce the increased risk,
although not eliminate it. The major challenges will be to identify suitable measures
for safe SCP restraint and to ensure a fast evacuation of the cabin with SCPs or to
increase the survival time in the cabin.

If general exclusion to air travel of special categories of passengers should be
avoided, the increased risk must be tolerated as part of the overall risk in air travel.
Recommendations for risk acceptance criteria could not be given due to a lack of
data. Definition of these criteria must be based on substantial statistical data. The
issue of risk acceptance is finally also subject to a political decision respecting the
social acceptability.

I especially liked the cya wording of the last para, first sentence!

[frosti]

If someone is overweight due to some sort of medical condition

Such as?

Not everyone that is overweight is at fault here.

Everyone? No. The majority? Yes. It's no secret that most who are obese are because of an unhealty diet and lack of daily exercise. For the most part, all the illness and health problems are a result of this lifestyle, not the opposite.

[B_Boomer_54]

If someone is overweight due to some sort of medical condition

Such as?

Thyroid condition springs to mind. Severe asthma resulting in immobility is another. I'm sure there are MANY! Not everyone that is overweight is at fault here. You have google? Try it.

They can reverse MS but they cannot stop someone from gaining 250+ lbs? That is just plain crap. A good friend of the family has a "thyroid" problem, and he is not occupying 2 seats. There is just as much aid going into that specific problem as there is in preventative medicine. Frost's point is simple and I agree with it - a majority of people these days (stats are out there) , are morbidly obese for reasons which have to do with a lazy unhealthy lifestyle and not because they have a "glandular" problem. Even if they do, for the sake of safety and the poor SOB who booked the seat next to them, they should be FORCED to purchase 2 seats.

Some actually can't help it. Just as you can't help being a super model, and God's gift to all mankind.

Take your own advice.

[Redneck_pilot86]

To all those who think its discrimination or whatever you want to call it to force people to pay for what they are using, please make yourself known on any flight you are on, so those of us that are disgusted by sharing 1/2 our seat can swap with you. You don't have any problems sitting beside these people, do you?

[Doc]

To all those who think its discrimination or whatever you want to call it to force people to pay for what they are using, please make yourself known on any flight you are on, so those of us that are disgusted by sharing 1/2 our seat can swap with you. You don't have any problems sitting beside these people, do you?

I totally agree, they should pay for two seats. I do not agree with verbally belittling them due to their weight. Perhaps the airlines should install "fat" seats. In a three abreast situation, install two of these "fat" seats? Of course, you'd have to find a more humane name for the seats. Perhaps, "George Richards" or "Pennington" seats? Perhaps "King or Queen" size seats? No fat folks on board? Sell them as upgrades, for 50$ a seat?

[mbflyer]

And that seems to the major issue. Not that people are overweight, but that it's the ones that only suffer from "Can't keep spoon from mouth syndrome" that are always pushing the issue and demanding that they be accommodated.

The people I know that suffer from legit reasons for obesity usually have the mindset of " how can I figure out a way to work with systems not designed for my size", those that don't have legit reasons usually have the mindset of " how can systems be changed to accommodate ME"

[Beefitarian]

What's the point of buying two seats now that they sell you the food and you won't even get two meals? Reading Doc's posts made a tear of happiness trickle down my pudgy round cheek.

I'd like to get that pre 1980s sized seat for an extra $50.

[Doc]

Just wondering how you would feel if the "system" wasn't set up to accommodate YOU?
Society treats persons who smoke like lepers, yet willingly sell these people cigarettes.
Restaurants like McDonald's serve garbage only slightly disguised as food, and we allow them to continue.
We live in a time of, shall I say it? Normal people are overweight. Drop into a Walmart near you.
Visit the States. Visit Texas. Thin people are becoming freaks.
Fat folks are the last demographic we can "pick on" without being politically incorrect or considered "racist" on some level.
Obviously this is a BIG problem. It's the airline industry's problem.
Airlines are money pigs. The seats are tight on most of us. There's virtually no leg room. They can stuff more cattle into them that way. Society is changing. People are getting fatter. Don't get me wrong, I'm no "fat" fan either, but bitching about it here isn't the answer.
I was told I would have to pay more if my carry on was over 14 kilos. It was. I removed a camera, two lenses and put them around my neck and in my pockets. Airline reweighed the bag. It was Okay. And, right in front of the complete moron woman who weighed the bag, I replaced the camera and two lenses back in the bag. We are not dealing with rocket scientists here. More like monkeys.
So, continue to call out all the fat people because they inconvenience YOU. That's mighty BIG of you.

[Beefitarian]

I don't know if it's the fault of the Golden Arches with their new salad line up. I still buy KFC sometimes because I want some Kentucy Fried Chicken from the 1970s, it's not the same now that it isn't cooked in lard and laced with MSG. Yet Harland D. claimed to eat it everyday and lived into his ninties, even though he wasn't rail thin he probably only took up one seat on an airplane.

It has to be partially caused by the everyone gets a ribbon/no winners in sports for kids society. Why should I run fast? Everyone that's valuable wears a suit and is employed in an office instead of working.

I believe there might be something to the "high fructose corn syrop" theory. The ads for soft drinks make people think there's no problem drinking them all the time.

[frosti]

So, continue to call out all the fat people because they inconvenience YOU. That's mighty BIG of you.

[2.5milefinal]

How big do we go?
Do we provide assistance and seating for someone that is 100 lbs over wt.... 200 or 300 ??
Put 'BIG' seats in what aircraft ? All aircraft or just the large airliners ?

[niss]

I'm around ~275lbs. I'm not huge, but I am a self proclaimed fat guy. Most people are surprised at my weight so I guess I do hide it well.

That said, if you told be just due to my weight I have to buy a second seat I would have something to say about it. I fit in the seats no problem and without an extension. I also fly around in my Cherokee with no problem.

[2.5milefinal]

Niss I am a little less then you.
I am pretty sure 'you' are not who we are talking about.

[flyinthebug]

I have a close friend who travels all the time. He is 6'4" and 440 lbs.

So, you plus him = two normal folks!! LOL!
Take care budd!

So what are you incinuating here Doc? That im not a fatty? Maybe a tad bit on the slim side? LOL...You are correct my buddy is about 3 of me. I can eat 100 lbs of Big Macs and still fit in one seat!...and damn proud of it!
Ill be through YQK in Feb and stoppin in for a nice dinner so be ready! Cheers mate!

[kevenv]

I personally don't care why people are overweight. This whole debate comes down to one simple fact:

I pay for 17 inches of seat and I am entitled to use ALL of it. You pay for 17 inches of seat, you are not entitled to use ANY of mine.

[Expat]

Way back in the seventies, I flew Ottawa - Winnipeg in a full DC-9, on a Sunday night. The flight was full for one reason. The Blue Bombers team was on board, and celebrating, because the had just beat Ottawa. My window seat left me about 12 inches of space...
Fortunately, the giant sitting next to me deposited 5 littles bottles of cognac on my tray, and smiled. I slept all the way after...