Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr 13

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yycflyguy
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by yycflyguy »

fish4life wrote:
126.7_STFU wrote:Air Canada website been down for quite a while now!
perhaps it was anonymous that was pilot x
The same dude that created the fog in YYZ, YOW and YUL the last time there was a workplace "disruption".
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I know AC pilots think I'm pretty stupid compared to them, but ...

AC mgmt showed it's hand when it went bananas when it tried to fire the two pilots who talked to the media.

AC mgmt does NOT want pilots talking to the media - they want to control what the public reads and thinks.

Now, does anyone have any ideas? Bueller?
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LegoMan
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by LegoMan »

This is the reality....

AC pilots have issues that they need to resolve with management. Management especially senior level executives have an obligation to the shareholders. The economy and business and the way we do business is changing. It has gotten very competitive and costly to do business. AC is required to be profitable or they risk losing shareholders. The same salaries and benefits you once enjoyed are changing...believe me they are even low-mid level managers.

The government cares about two things...pilots rights is not one of them. They care about the economy and the safety of the flying public. Flying has a huge impact on our economy. When pilots dont fly, people miss funerals, vacations, business meetings & opportunities. This is why the government has gotten involved.

Management is selling to the government that the pilots striking are affecting the economy and the government listens. 50 pilots not showing up to work has huge financial implications throughout the economy believe it or not. It also affects businesses ability to grow and hire new employees bringing down the unemployment rate which is the governments focus in order to look good next elections....so... you have...

1. Frustrated pilots (unionized)
2. Crying management
3. Pissed off customers
4. Coward government

I hate to say it but in this scenario the pilots are at a loss. You lost, I'm sorry that you did and I respect what you are trying to do but you will not win especially the way you are going about it and especially at this time and economy.

I wish you guys the best of luck, be sure this is what you all collectively want because at a certain point, diplomacy fails and there is no going back.
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Fulcrum29
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Fulcrum29 »

LegoMan wrote:This is the reality....

AC pilots have issues that they need to resolve with management. Management especially senior level executives have an obligation to the shareholders. The economy and business and the way we do business is changing. It has gotten very competitive and costly to do business. AC is required to be profitable or they risk losing shareholders. The same salaries and benefits you once enjoyed are changing...believe me they are even low-mid level managers.

The government cares about two things...pilots rights is not one of them. They care about the economy and the safety of the flying public. Flying has a huge impact on our economy. When pilots dont fly, people miss funerals, vacations, business meetings & opportunities. This is why the government has gotten involved.

Management is selling to the government that the pilots striking are affecting the economy and the government listens. 50 pilots not showing up to work has huge financial implications throughout the economy believe it or not. It also affects businesses ability to grow and hire new employees bringing down the unemployment rate which is the governments focus in order to look good next elections....so... you have...

1. Frustrated pilots (unionized)
2. Crying management
3. Pissed off customers
4. Coward government

I hate to say it but in this scenario the pilots are at a loss. You lost, I'm sorry that you did and I respect what you are trying to do but you will not win especially the way you are going about it and especially at this time and economy.

I wish you guys the best of luck, be sure this is what you all collectively want because at a certain point, diplomacy fails and there is no going back.
That will happen when people loose their basic rights and ability to (strike) defend their professions and livelihoods. When the law doesn't protect a society, the society or at least some of it, will take the law into their own hands.
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Mclovin
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Mclovin »

When is the madness going to end? I had 2 friends today alone whose flights were cancelled, losing thousands in hotels, and car rentals, etc. They are among thousands who will probably never fly AC again. When is both the union and management going to wake up and see they are killing this company?
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Rollercoaster Rider
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Rollercoaster Rider »

Watch the news guys,you are the villans..Westjet wins again.Thanks for trashing respect for us all.
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skat0r
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by skat0r »

god this makes me fkin angry, god damn shitty sucking money companies
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Pilot X
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Pilot X »

Looks like the website called in sick too. :smt040
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Rockie
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Rockie »

teacher wrote: A strategic retreat I think is warranted in this case, not a kamakazi assault.
If only that were the case. With the government's full support Air Canada is going for all the marbles this time around and they don't care who they piss off or what rules they have to break to do it. The government has their back.

Retreat from this now means the end of our jobs and every sign points to the eventual wind up of Air Canada itself. We are in the final stages of a strategic plan Rovinescu dreamed up in 2002 that saw vulture funds and individual executives stripping every last morsel of value out of Air Canada before letting it slip into the deep. Review the events since then and what is occurring today with ACE and everything else and you can reach no other conclusion.

There is no retreat this time or we lose it all.
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Lost Lake
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Lost Lake »

Just watched the news. The media seems to be more against government and their intervention in basic civil rights. Interesting enough, their web site is down. Espionage or coincidence?
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by TheSuit »

Rockie,

What are you trying to prove here? The more belligerent you become, the more incentive management and shareholders have to get rid of you. Your position has deteriorated from a simple B-scale in TA1 to fears of wide-spread outsourcing of your job. A whole year of chest-thumping and all you have managed to do is solidify the business case for AC to move away from ACPA. Boeing built a whole new aircraft plant to avoid this type of thing. Cat built a new locomotive plant. Qantas pilots wanted none of Jetstar, look where that got them.

You don't seem to understand that management and shareholders are in an equally precarious position. The company in it's current form has no future; another 2-3 years and AC is insolvent. Remember when I said WestJet was going to eat your lunch and you all laughed at me? It's not funny now is it? Who is going to want to finance your re-fleeting while you're on the verge of CCAA? Who is going to want to fly on an airline that doesn't run on schedule? No aircraft, no passengers, means no pilots buddy. If you want to insist that AC look elsewhere to find cost-effective employees, they will.
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bearinmind
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by bearinmind »

This is what you get when you you dont settle contracts. Im not saying its the best way, but at least you are doing something, and you beleive in it, kudos guys!
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Rockie
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Rockie »

TheSuit wrote:Rockie,

What are you trying to prove here?
Prove? Nothing. I'm fighting for my job.

What are you doing here?
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crazycanuck
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by crazycanuck »

If one of my employees staged a "sick out" the next morning I would cancel their security pass and give them a bankers box for their personal items. Grow up, the workplace is not a democracy.
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Last edited by crazycanuck on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheSuit
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by TheSuit »

Rockie wrote:I'm fighting for my job.
That's the problem. Your union should be coming up with a workable solution and you should be voting it in, not fighting.

As for me, I'm hoping you jokers don't collapse and make my life even more difficult.
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teacher
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by teacher »

Rockie wrote:
TheSuit wrote:Rockie,

What are you trying to prove here?
Prove? Nothing. I'm fighting for my job.

What are you doing here?
And a valiant effort at that but in war one must also know when to surrender as well. At this point fighting for your jobs may cost you your job. For now any continued "fighting" will only hurt the employee groups in my opinion.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Dark Helmet »

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skat0r
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by skat0r »

teacher wrote:
Rockie wrote:
TheSuit wrote:Rockie,

What are you trying to prove here?
Prove? Nothing. I'm fighting for my job.

What are you doing here?
And a valiant effort at that but in war one must also know when to surrender as well. At this point fighting for your jobs may cost you your job. For now any continued "fighting" will only hurt the employee groups in my opinion.
So what they should just accept their shitty conditions and deal with it? Anyone with shitty jobs or shitty life shouldn't do damn a thing about it and just accept it because our society is like that? No way man
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Lost Lake »

AC,is a private (?) Employer. The federal gov't passed legislation providing protection to unions. Now they want to remove the basic rights of the unions they wrote laws to protect! What's the sense of having a union if the govt decides if they can use their constitutional right to strike. The truth is the govt employees will be inconvenienced in their unnecessary travel. Let the company fight it out without interference. The govt can'teven run their own businesses speaking of bankrupt
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crazycanuck
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by crazycanuck »

Lost Lake wrote:AC,is a private (?) ...can use their constitutional right to strike.
Sorry, where is it again in the Constitution that the right to strike is protected? I must have missed it.
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BverLuver
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by BverLuver »

You guys really need to watch the CBC news tonight. This is how you are perceived by the general public, they are right there saying it, not me. You have a long uphill battle with not a spare day to waste.

BTW, What the fu*k was with the letter written to the shareholders by the union? I really do not understand the tactics of the union one bit. They are so ass backwards its startling. That letter is just another misstep that is going to come back to bite you in the ass. Especially since you know the media is only going to take snipets of it to paint the picture they way they want which is not going to go in your direction.

BL
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tincanflyer
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by tincanflyer »

What a bunch of class-less bums. You are hurting the wrong people....you know the ones that pay your over inflated wage. Bunch of babies. I hope your jobs go bye-bye or to a LCC; call in sick then!!
When will WestJet go international? Hope soon!
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sanjet
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by sanjet »

I sincerely wish the best for this pilots at Air Canada. I think the moment Air Canada management decided to inform pilots that they would be locked out the same day the baggage handlers would go on strike, it showed the level of maturity and true intentions management had.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Meatservo »

="tincanflyer"..you know the ones that pay your over inflated wage.
When did our reverence for "executives" reach such heights that even other pilots are referring to each others' salaries as "over inflated"?

I was just looking at some figures for Air Canada pilots' wages, and they don't seem unreasonable to me. I mean, they are decent, but not outrageous. The middle-of-the-road salaries aren't much more than a certain happy-go-lucky Twin Otter pilot could make flying in the Maldives. I'm afraid I find it difficult to think of pilots as the "bad guys" when I hear about what the "good guys" (the executives) are "making" (or giving themselves, I guess I mean). I guess the good guys really put so much emphasis on making the big deals that they must forget who makes the jets fly. If they can't make the jets fly themselves, and they can't find anyone else to do it for them (after all, anyone can be a pilot), then I can forgive a group of pilots who have run out of any other way to remind them who it is that actually bakes the bread that they all eat. Maybe the pilots are shooting themselves in the foot, but it must be tempting. I don't see why we should be angry with the pilots for failing to feel as much moral obligation to the traveling public's schedules as we think they should, when it's clear that the executives forcing the issue don't feel much moral obligation to anything but themselves and their cronies. Why are we so angry with the pilots?

I can understand the public reaction, the group mentality being what it is, but honestly I can't understand why other pilots are so mad at these guys. I would think you'd be happy the Air Canada pilots are cutting off their collective nose to spite their face: here comes your chance to take their jobs by being willing to work for less.

I apologise in advance for my simplistic viewpoint.
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petey
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by petey »

Sounds like a shitty place to work. :smt014
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