Rouge

[teacher]

Wow and the AC folks were accusing Jazz of bringing the bar down when our 757 rate was $155 (status pay aside).

[bcflyer]

The $118.00hr is the rate for a pilot bidding the 767 with no command time at AC. The bid isn't out yet but I would be very very surprised to see anyone actually making that amount.

[Mig29]

There are positives about Rouge...
Its a good place to go if your a junior ACPA member
- ACPA Pilots
- Socialized Bidding
- Overtime opportunities
- Productive flying
- Nice equipment (with cool paintjob )
I can't see how Rouge will fail since they are taking over certain mainline routes with a cheaper operating cost with more seats
I know many Mainline pilots bidding there for their first command.

-ACPA pilots for now...
-Socialized bidding has not been described in the FOS. Nobody knows how it will be implemented.
-There are AVO opportunities at mainline now in the FOS.
-Productive to the point of being onerous. CARs limits with serious fatigue issues.
-The B767s are 30+ years old and they are going to pack in 275 pax. There will be no rest facility, no bunk and I believe no RP.
-The A319s are 25+ years old.
-First command will mean they are back on probation, in charge of planes with multiple MELs and pressure to get the mission done. For many, if they bid command, especially the B767, it will be a pay cut as they will be in year one Captain scale = $118/hr.

... and those are your positives.

+1 yycflyguy Thank you for not making me type all that.


LTD,

you seem like a nice guy and your heart is in the right place, but don`t be offended if I say that your perception of Rouge is very naive. It`s more complex than you can even imagine, and implications on the aviation in this country will be felt for years down the road, as time will tell... Just like implications of Sky, Encore etc.

Regards

[FICU]

It would be nice to see you guys and gals come together and refuse to bid any Rouge positions. Force their hand and see what they come up with but I think we can all agree there should be no ACPA pilots in LCC airplanes at this time.

Good luck!

[duranium]

There are positives about Rouge...
Its a good place to go if your a junior ACPA member
- ACPA Pilots
- Socialized Bidding
- Overtime opportunities
- Productive flying
- Nice equipment (with cool paintjob )
I can't see how Rouge will fail since they are taking over certain mainline routes with a cheaper operating cost with more seats
I know many Mainline pilots bidding there for their first command.

-ACPA pilots for now...
-Socialized bidding has not been described in the FOS. Nobody knows how it will be implemented.
-There are AVO opportunities at mainline now in the FOS.
-Productive to the point of being onerous. CARs limits with serious fatigue issues.
-The B767s are 30+ years old and they are going to pack in 275 pax. There will be no rest facility, no bunk and I believe no RP.
-The A319s are 25+ years old.
-First command will mean they are back on probation, in charge of planes with multiple MELs and pressure to get the mission done. For many, if they bid command, especially the B767, it will be a pay cut as they will be in year one Captain scale = $118/hr.

... and those are your positives.

Hope you are so sure of your facts... as usual.

The oldest 767-300 that Air Canada operates, according to http://airfleets
is MSN 213, delivered to Canadian Airlines on 15/04/1988 and registered under C-FCAB and now operated by Air Canada. That makes that fin number 24.7 years old and the youngest 767-300 they operate, still according from the same source, is 9.8 years old, hardly 30+ years old, The oldest 319 AC operates, MSN 546, entered service on August 25, 1995 some 17.5 years ago, hardly 25 years old. Why dont you get your facts strait, before posting such hogwash. Some people do take the time to check up on facts, and yours do not hold up to a hill of beans. So, It leaves one with the distinct impresion you are out in left field, way past the park fence.

[FL020]

duranium!

It has nothing to do with the age of the aircrafts, in fact the fellow in the previous posts might be refering to the number of hours and cycles some of those machines have - late'80's 319's and 320's, with over 80,000 hrs!?

[LeadingEdge]

Wow and the AC folks were accusing Jazz of bringing the bar down when our 757 rate was $155 (status pay aside).

You can thank your Canadian Federal Government for lowering the bar here, ACPA was forced into it against their will...

[duranium]

duranium!

It has nothing to do with the age of the aircrafts, in fact the fellow in the previous posts might be refering to the number of hours and cycles some of those machines have - late'80's 319's and 320's, with over 80,000 hrs!?

Sorry, it has to do with facts such as age of aircraft, just as he wrote in his post and I doubt very much that a 17 year old aircraft has 80000 hours on the airframe as that would mean that that same airframe would have to fly OVER 12.5 hours every day, day in and day out for the past 17 years, no major checks, no down time no nothing, more than a small stretch of the imagination I would say.

[FL020]

U want log book pages?? I've got several friends flying the bus for a.c.....I

[Rockie]

U want log book pages?? I've got several friends flying the bus for a.c.....I

Don't bother asking, last I checked we don't have a photocopier on the airplanes to copy logbook pages. Not that it would do any good since the logbooks don't contain total hours or cycles anyway. You'd have to be in maintenance to have that information because pilots don't.

[ratherbee]

IF, Rouge was ever sold off, it would no longer have any affiliation at all with Air Canada. ACPA's scope language ensures that.

IF, Rouge was sold off, it would because it was a dismal failure and could not stand on it's own, sadly like AVEOS.

IF, Rouge was sold off, all the pilots would remain AC pilots, as they are today, and would retain their seniority numbers with the mainline.

Once again, lots of fearmongering by those who think they know how to run an airline.

Bottom line is that this is an exciting opportunity for AC and our pilots. The working conditions may prove to be better than mainline although the salaries are much less than they could have been. The jobs are there for our pilots but they will go to a more junior group. With the stagnation occuring from the loss of mandatory retirement maybe this is a good thing.

[Norwegianwood]

[quote="RockieDon't bother asking, last I checked we don't have a photocopier on the airplanes to copy logbook pages. Not that it would do any good since the logbooks don't contain total hours or cycles anyway. You'd have to be in maintenance to have that information because pilots don't.[/quote]

Hey Rockie, 21st century....... iPhone/Ipad etc...... Don't need the boat anchor anymore, Happy Christmas to all, NW

[Rockie]

Hey Rockie, 21st century....... iPhone/Ipad etc...... Don't need the boat anchor anymore,

Don't forget this is the company that was using DOS up until five years ago.

Ipad? What's that?

[Takeoff OK]

It would be nice to see you guys and gals come together and refuse to bid any Rouge positions. Force their hand and see what they come up with but I think we can all agree there should be no ACPA pilots in LCC airplanes at this time.

Good luck!

Wouldn't that just result in involuntary displacements?

[duranium]

U want log book pages?? I've got several friends flying the bus for a.c.....I

Don't bother asking, last I checked we don't have a photocopier on the airplanes to copy logbook pages. Not that it would do any good since the logbooks don't contain total hours or cycles anyway. You'd have to be in maintenance to have that information because pilots don't.

Rockie

No need to be in maintenance for that information, just ask a friendly mtc person for the exact computer code in the AC computer the next time one shows up on your flight deck and has 2 seconds to chat. I do not have access to your computers but I am certain that code does exist and must be fairly simple to obtain and use. It will show the exact number of cycles, hours and a lot more information

[AirMail]

edited

[Rockie]

Rockie

No need to be in maintenance for that information, just ask a friendly mtc person for the exact computer code in the AC computer the next time one shows up on your flight deck and has 2 seconds to chat. I do not have access to your computers but I am certain that code does exist and must be fairly simple to obtain and use. It will show the exact number of cycles, hours and a lot more information

No doubt you're correct, but you haven't seen our computer system or web portal. It is a dog's breakfast that makes it near impossible to locate anything in under five minutes. Finding our monthly schedule is hard enough without delving into the maintenance side of things.

[conehead]

OpsLink.

[Rockie]

OpsLink.

Scoured the website and couldn't find it. Is this something pilots have access to?

[c170b53]

The last 67's in the fleet entered service in the fall of 2001 I believe. Fins 658-661. I worked with Boeing on the last of their pre service mods in Wichita (659-661). I say believe because its been awhile.
As for hours, we have retired aircraft because of their hours, 80000 isn't a big deal, it's the cycles.
It's going to be tough when everything is new and some stuff is old and probably explains or is in keeping with a soft opening.

[JZA]

I believe the first two 767-300 fins going to Red are the youngest ex-Hawaiian birds. Both aircraft are circa 2003. Their dispatch reliability in theory should be decent.

[c170b53]

I think your right, relatively low times and cycles, Pratt powered. Checked some stats for those interested, high timers have > 100,000 hrs with avg flt 5 hours. My memory appears to be ok as the latest 767 acquired new were brought into the fleet in 2001 and presently have an avg of 50-60K hours avg 7k cycles. High aircraft utilization is a sign of a good company and AC can"t be faulted in that category.

[flyincanuck]

It would be nice to see you guys and gals come together and refuse to bid any Rouge positions. Force their hand and see what they come up with but I think we can all agree there should be no ACPA pilots in LCC airplanes at this time.

Good luck!

Wouldn't that just result in involuntary displacements?

Bingo. Strategy fail.

I would like to see every one band together. LOU states, no reserve, and it expects pilots to pick up open time. Don't.

Left-over open time is awarded via electronic lottery and paid at a rate of 2.5.

Get drafted at x 2.5. The caveat is you can only take a 2.5 draft once a year. So if everyone burnt through their's in the first few months, the next time Crew Sked comes calling to draft, it's then time to talk $$$ (2.5).

What's $117 x 2.5? $292? An hour? $6,000 for an ATH cycle for the most jr. Capt.

Navcanada boys and girls have been working their system for years.

But...herding pilots is like herding cats. The above is a nice thought...at best.

[A330]

Rouge? A very odd and unclear name. I don't get it. Is that the best they could come up with?

Shaking head once again at our National airline.

[biatch]

I agree. Terrible name.